Is this how the OSx86 scene is going? - Page 3

RetroRen · #21 02-02-2009, 11:59 AM

I cannot see the pdf link in first post also, mac/wins likewise...

regarding the IM - I joined this forum because it seems to be more ''clear'', helpfull, people are more friendly and ready to help. I dont post much here (didnt post much on IM also) but I read and learn a lot, and IM has become too big, admins and moderators are not doing good job cleaning IM from garbage.

This site has a lot of potential, I hope it will be good. And I hope it wont grow too big

On the iPC subject, I must admitt it has a big error/bug rate. I'm in OSX86 for over a year now, I'm not a newb anymore and I manage to install OSX on almoust every PC. I tried every LEO distro outthere, and iPC is the least succsesfull distro.

Personally, I would like to see more kext developers then distro developers. Also, I would like to see more people working on retail installs ( AMD and Intel) and kext development. I think these 2 things should be the main focus now, along with kernel and usefull app dev.

There's a lot of distros going around, almoust everyone can find the one he can use.

If pcwiz had a little more experience, he would probably release this iPC beta only to a smaller closed group of testers. He would have avoid a lott of problems doing that,and the final effect would be much better. Personaly I love his work, if he is really that young (13) he deserves a lot of credit.

Now, can someone post a good link to the pdf in first post, I would like to see what all the fuss is about

cmdshft · #22 02-02-2009, 04:48 PM

I've been in this scene quite a long time, this is just the first I've actually decided to try and help contribute back to the scene. 3 years is a long time, and I am still learning things.

I don't agree with your statement about iPC for several reasons. Firstly, we've had a much greater positive response than negative. The first reason for this supposed failure rate is user error. It's clearly written that you need to install a chipset driver (mostly for non-vanilla setups), in both the notes on the release page, and in the installer itself when you click that "Agree" button. People don't bother to read, end up getting "Waiting for root device" and come running back. Another example is not doing their homework and research into what works and what doesn't. That's what the Wiki was for. Also, it's in the nature of OSx86 to not work for some people, at this moment it's impossible to support every system, even when trying both retail and non-retail methods. This failure rate may have only been on your end as well. Which is fine. We have nothing against using another distro, as long as you can get Leo up and running, that's enough on it's own. You're free to use from the iPC dvd whatever you want afterwards as well. This is why we added the ability to launch the installer from inside another OS X system, if you need a driver and it's on iPC, you don't have to go searching high and low on the internet.

We opened up the beta after a few small trial runs because we figured it would be better if we could get input from the people who are going to use it and support those people to the best of our ability. The top two hardest to support are SBx00 users (usually newer chipsets) and nForce users. It's still very difficult to run retail with these chipsets as well.

Onlly leopard? Should have been around in the 10.4.x days. Those were fun. "Want to install Tiger? Well, too bad" was the most common scenario.

I agree with your last points.

naquaada · #23 02-02-2009, 06:52 PM

I know that there are a lot of weird things in insanelymac, but this is shameful. It's neiter funny or ridiculus, this is simply stupid. It reminds me at the guys of forum64.de. These people were so idiotic that I canceled my registration - although I had over 600 posts.

But insanelymac has the same problem like the complete internet: If there are too many people in it, there are a lot of ididots beneath them. And because of the size it is difficult to control what's going on. Have you tried to search a special thing in insanlymac? It's nearly impossible.

I made difficult experiences with forums, users and languages. In German forums there's a lot space for off-topic talk, this opens room for stupid talk. I'm now in macmini-forum.de, it's a nice forum - but it's so calm in there, wow. In the OSx86 forums you'll get bombed with information, I hadn't this in other Mac forums. In the forum64.de (Commodore 64) and a1k.org (Amiga) are more information, but totally stupid users. That mustn't mean anything, I also own a lot of these classic computers (with massive hardware ;-)

Infinitemac was a great alternative to Insanelymac, I entered there a few days after it was founded. Especcially the concentration to AMD was great, and Zephyroth's 10.5.1 image was the first image to get away from Tiger 10.4.7 (by myzar). All Images since JaS 10.4.8 had a bug in the Disk Utility which I use every day. I think the users in there make a very good community, I don't remember about so heavy things to complain about. What about the other OSx86 forums, how many are there actually?

naquaada · #24 02-02-2009, 07:21 PM

I can't read everything 'cause my glasses with prism optic are broken and I see everything twice...

but to see huge scrolling PMs with text quotes in it is enough to see that there must be some problems. I didn't had specific problems with Hagar, some slaps or short bans in the IRC, never mind.

To the iPC image, on my system only the X1600 drivers won't work and the Keyboard Preference pane is wrong... that's all I know and it's easy to fix. (I have you to send the fixed files, Hara Taiki... sorry was a bit busy) But it's sure, not every image works completely on every computer, they hardware configurations are much too different. I've tested more than 25 images from 10.4.5 to 10.5.6 and the only ones which were running 100% without problems were myzar's 10.4.6 and Leo4All V3. All others had some kind of errors including some which could't be fixed easily. The installation menu of iPC is fantastic, it's one of the best I've ever seen. And some fixes will follow in the next ppf, but that's another topic.

Interesting, Hara Taiki, you said '3 years is a long time'... true, in March 2009 it will be 3 years for me too - only. I have a feeling I'm using OSx86 for so much longer. In comparison, Windows XP I used regularly from 02/2004 to 05/2006 - I know it exactly, I switched to XP because I used it for Audio editing. But then I switched to Tiger, and it was so great that I used it in 1280x1024 in 60 Hz on a CRT monitor. Gladly I was used Amiga Interlace (25 Hz), so it wasn't too difficult. It needed some time as patches for the X1600 were available, and it wasn't diffictult to apply them. In these times Insanelymac was really informative!

lanceomni · #25 02-02-2009, 07:28 PM

Now Ive browsed insanely for years now but only recently became active both here and over there. I agree that these guys were extremely rude in the post but post #28 brings you down to their level. Though it may be difficult to hold back your feelings. It will put you in a better light to those new to the forum who run across this post if you were to avoid profane statements. The first pcwiz post is a perfect example of restraint.

I think the point should be made that Realityiswhere was correct when making the point that the graphic contribution broke the source image's cc license. This has nothing to do with pcwiz as TheBogieMan is at fault here. The thread took a wrong turn from there out.

The problem that I see is in the moderation of the post. Realityiswhere is correct for stating the issue with the graphic but he/her or any other mod who viewed the post should have put an end to the bashing. They should have ended it regardless of pcwiz's conduct on the forum or software reliability. Ever instance of this kind of content tarnishes the integrity of the forum.

LawlessPPC · #26 02-02-2009, 07:42 PM

This type of thing really does my head in. Usually when they start slagging a release of its because they wont bother to read or understand how the distros are made. I mean how can 1 or 2 or even 10 ppl cover every piece of hardware out there and know it to be flawless. I've had crap in the past from ppl claiming I sounded to much like a wiki for the knowledge I had to be my own (how rediculous). I did the same as pcwiz and started ranting and it turned into a bit of a slag fest. Then I threatened to stop bothering doing anything else and got slagged of for that. See I'm at it again its still annoying me lol! All I can say is vote with your browsers and do what suits you the best. If a forum where you have to be in a click suits you then fine. If you want a forum where there are some seriously dedicated HELPERS (you know who you are guys) then come here. One thing I would like is if you ever get help in these forums please spread the wealth of the knowledge you have gained. Also if you use any of the distros that seem to be associated with this site or the fact this site has helped you then please make a donation. These help to keep this site going. Im starting to think of insanelymac as a user base and infintemac as a growing community in its own right. Oh and as a side note how many distros fail due master/slave configs and bios settings but hey ppl just wanna plug and pray lol. To anyone thats contributed to the scene (wether its distro, kext, kernel, backdrop, guide etc) thankyou. I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the die hards that have made all this possible.

RetroRen · #27 02-02-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hara Taiki

The first reason for this supposed failure rate is user error. It's clearly written that you need to install a chipset driver (mostly for non-vanilla setups), in both the notes on the release page, and in the installer itself when you click that "Agree" button. People don't bother to read, end up getting "Waiting for root device" and come running back.

I didnt want to be disrespectful. I have 4 systems at home, 3 nf4 AMD and one Intel, with iPC only 25% (1 system) works. I did everything by the book (I'm in osx86 long enough so i know what i have to do), tried complete and minimum setup (bootloader, chipset, kernel) didnt work either way. With Leo4All and Kallyway (both 10.5.2.) i had 100% success.

And I understand that some distros just dont work on some systems. I like iPC, it has many many kexts, fixes, updates, kernels etc. Would be nice to use it with all my systems.

I think that in some cases the 10.5.6. update in distro is to blame for not working. Apple did a lot of changes there...
I will give a try with the final version, till now i used beta patched version all the way to PPF5.

i wasnt here in the challenging Tiger days. But, from what I read it was almoust impossible to get 10.4 working on AMD system so I guess i didnt miss a lot of fun

pcwiz · #28 02-02-2009, 11:08 PM

Hey guys,

Thanks for your (mostly) positive responses on this thread. This is the first time I'm really confessing it, but I am 14 right now (iPC started at 13, app programming started at 11) so I don't have nearly as much experience as most think (and please don't spread this stuff around, I'm confiding in you people because I trust that you won't act like some of the other folks). In terms of iPC's failure rate, I can confirm to you right now that the positives far outweigh the negatives, I've had a lot of positive response to it everywhere, and many problems that people are experiencing are due to mostly user error and the radical changes Apple made in 10.5.6 (especially in terms of graphics). As for my apps being unreliable, I can also tell you that I have received more positive than negative about them. Most problems are due to unfamiliarity with OSx86, user error, and the occasion where it is the app's fault is sometimes in issues with About this Mac corruption with OSx86 Tools (don't worry, its fixable).

Thanks for understanding my situation

LawlessPPC · #29 02-03-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcwiz

Hey guys,

Thanks for your (mostly) positive responses on this thread. This is the first time I'm really confessing it, but I am 14 right now (iPC started at 13, app programming started at 11) so I don't have nearly as much experience as most think (and please don't spread this stuff around, I'm confiding in you people because I trust that you won't act like some of the other folks). In terms of iPC's failure rate, I can confirm to you right now that the positives far outweigh the negatives, I've had a lot of positive response to it everywhere, and many problems that people are experiencing are due to mostly user error and the radical changes Apple made in 10.5.6 (especially in terms of graphics). As for my apps being unreliable, I can also tell you that I have received more positive than negative about them. Most problems are due to unfamiliarity with OSx86, user error, and the occasion where it is the app's fault is sometimes in issues with About this Mac corruption with OSx86 Tools (don't worry, its fixable).

Thanks for understanding my situation

WOAH

Gobsmacked!!!!!

RetroRen · #30 02-03-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcwiz

I've had a lot of positive response to it everywhere, and many problems that people are experiencing are due to mostly user error and the radical changes Apple made in 10.5.6 (especially in terms of graphics).

That's what i thought, my install problem s where all graphics related. Will try a final release when I catch some free time.

About OSX86Tools, personaly I think it is the most valuable OSX86 tool outthere. Works perfectly for me

pcwiz, You are more then have of my age, and I admire your skills and spirit. Keep up the good work with iPC, GUIs and OSX86 apps