[Solved] AMD Dual Core Timing Issue AKA Mouse Bug

[Ianxxx]

agrafuese:Usually the number of cores reported in System Profiler doesn't mean anything, unless you have "cpus=1" in your boot.plist. If you run Activity Monitor and see two CPU graphs moving, then you have two cores running. Although, my System Profiler is reporting both cores and I'm running the latest Netkas version of AppleSMBIOS. Maybe that could be why you're only seeing one? Anyway, that shouldn't be any reason for your system to act up. But actually, you may want to try that "cpus=1" flag instead of the "idlehalt=0". I've heard it has the same effect, but it probably reduces performance on your machine, since you'd only be running one core. It's worth a try. Certainly wont heat your CPU up like idlehalt does.

How you getting on Agrafuese?
I'm well and truly converted to the darkside and Ģ144 poorer.

[agrafuese]

Well, I don't smell any smoke yet, sooooo...I guess I'm fine for now. Ask me in a couple of days, haha :D Seriously though, the temps are high, but the system has never been this stable. I was thinking...I believe the kernel I'm running (Netkas 9.2.0 w/ shutdown fix) has a speedstep function in it. I am wondering what my system would be like if I went back to the version before he implemented the speedstep. My theory is, if idlehalt deals with energy saving and turning it off helps me, maybe using a kernel without speedstep would help me just the same, and perhaps even without the heating up? I don't know if I'm on to anything, but I'll give it a try.

It sounds like I should be asking YOU how you're doing with the Intel...any persuasive words for us? :)

[Ianxxx]

well although I think things got a little worse after I had installed that same kernel, but before then firefox would randomly crash it didn't at all after the idlehalt thing.

[Ianxxx]

I don't want to blow smoke in anyones face but I tell you if you can afford it I'd definatly go intel. I just wish apple had partnered up with amd.

[agrafuese]

Well, there seems to be a lot of talk about it in rumor circles, but for me it'll be quicker to save money and buy an Intel than it will be to wait for Apple to cozy up with AMD. I'm still tortured by the fact that we've got these issues in Leopard, but not in the old Tiger releases. I really wish I could understand how that would be possible, but I have neither the knowledge nor the time to spend investigating it. Maybe we should be harassing Netkas instead of Zeph. Anyway, I'm doing some tests right now, so I'll be back with reports.

[agrafuese]

ok, small update:

apparently, there is a newer non-speedstep kernel by Netkas that i never knew about. i'm trying it out right now with some torrents and i'll let everyone know how it works after some hours of monitoring. i checked the idle temperatures on it, and it's waaaay lower than my previous kernel with "idlehalt=0". it's a difference of about 12 degrees. so that voids my theory that idlehalt is the same thing as speedstep when it comes to temperatures. definitely not :P so we'll see what happens.

[mrburns05]

which kernal does 10.5.2 include??? (of 9.2.0)

[agrafuese]

@mrburns05: not exactly sure. i think rev1 uses the original 9.2.0 non-speedstep kernel that netkas first released. i don't know which one rev2 uses...possibly speedstep kernel with shutdown fix. the kernel i am using right now is neither of the two. and while i'm here, how about an update:

the newer netkas 9.2.0 non-speedstep kernel didn't help me. i've been running torrents for about 5 hours now and the jerky mouse is back. so it looks like idlehalt=0 is the only solution for me...although, the +12 degrees on my CPU that it brings is definitely not fun or exciting. so once again, case closed for me with no "real" fix. just a "hot" fix ;)

[mrburns05]

okay now i left azureus on all night downloading a 6gb file, conections limited @ 250/300 peers, no crash!

System: using whatever comes on 10.5.2 rev1 disk

only things ive changed:

Disabled Indexing, turned off time machine, turned off screensaver, and in bios set cpu fan from 90% to full speed ( i believe at idle im around 32-33 Celcius)


I am over clocking (64 X2 3800+"2Ghz" OC'ed @ 2.2Ghz) DDR400 running at 440mhz

[Firewalk]

Hi All, Does anybody actually have a full working leopard install on AMD, ie without the bugs listed here. My system randomly crashes using torrents or just heavy workload. i have tried all suggestions here and on insanelymac to no avail , although the cpu=1 is the closest to a fix for me (takes about 8hrs to crash). Is there any point continuing on the AMD platform for Leopard or should i just get and Intel setup. It would be a shame to go Intel given all the hard work done by Zephyroth and others, but for me i cant live with random crashing and the mad mouse problems.

Firewalk

[Ianxxx]

idlehalt=0
totally fixed my system apart from temperature issues, but I decided to go intel anyway, its just easier!

[Firewalk]

Hi lanxxx, I tried idlehalt=0 but my system would reset itself after 30, 50 mins. mouse would freeze then the busy cursor then mouse would dissapear then i would get the spinning logo on desktop and after a minute or so system would reset. so far ive had best results with the cpus=1 command (still results in reset but atleast i can use it for 4-5 hours). Do you know if this problem is purely AMD related as i dont want to buy all intel to hit the same wall again..

AMD OS X has been fun though..

Firewalk

[Ianxxx]

Firewalk:Hi lanxxx, I tried idlehalt=0 but my system would reset itself after 30, 50 mins. mouse would freeze then the busy cursor then mouse would dissapear then i would get the spinning logo on desktop and after a minute or so system would reset. so far ive had best results with the cpus=1 command (still results in reset but atleast i can use it for 4-5 hours). Do you know if this problem is purely AMD related as i dont want to buy all intel to hit the same wall again..

AMD OS X has been fun though..

Firewalk

As far as I know its only amd, I wonder if your system was overheating with idlehalt=0 sounds to me like that might be the case. I now have a gigabyte ga-p35-ds3l and I can tell you everything is spot on the only "negative is two channel audio" other wise, everything seems perfect, updated using software update etc etc.

If you think your system might be overheating then I found this temperature monitor

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19994

[Firewalk]

Hi lanxxx, Thanks for the link, although it only shows temps for my hard drives..with the cpu=1 command my system has been running since 9am this morning uk time. so far my uptime is 5.3 hrs with no probs..still gonna look at intel boards and cpus though..

[agrafuese]

Yeah, that app doesn't work for AMDs...tried it some time ago.

So Ianxxx, you went with the DS3L??? I thought you were gonna go with that other cheapo board? That's good news though, because that's the board I want. Glad to hear another account of the DS3L working great. IMO, 2-channel audio is fine. It's all I use. Besides, I've never had anything more than that with my AMD anyway!

Oh, but AMD users may still have a fighting chance to have a stable system! Did anyone see that JaS is back on the scene?? Check it out: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=92524

I was all smiles when I read the news, but he wont be making an AMD release for quite some time it seems. Still, it's something to look forward to! :D

[agrafuese]

Firewalk:Hi lanxxx, Thanks for the link, although it only shows temps for my hard drives..with the cpu=1 command my system has been running since 9am this morning uk time. so far my uptime is 5.3 hrs with no probs..still gonna look at intel boards and cpus though..

Are you OC'ing at all? If so, try setting everything in your BIOS to default and then try idlehalt=0 again. In my case, I have no more headroom for any kind of tinkering with OC because if I did it, my system would definitely fry. At this point, I'm at about 52 degrees at idle and I'm worried enough about the ambient temperature going up in my house. :\ I may even have to look into more cooling - if I don't get an Intel system first, that is. Oh, and also try not using forcedeth.kext, just to rule it out. Then let us know how you're getting along.

[Firewalk]

Hi agrafuese, i dont overclock my system so bios is set to defaults, cooling shouldnt be a problem in the antec case i have there are two big 3 speed exhaust fans right next to the cpu. i cant check cpu temp as i havent found a proggie for it, but if i open system and touch the heatsink when running its cold to touch (i know its stupid sticking your fingers in live hardware, so i dont recommend anybody doing this). my record uptime has been 8.5 hours (not good for me).

i am at a loss , will keep researching and testing and let you know how i get on

Firewalk

P.S upon checking i dont have forcedepth.kext installed in extension folder,(isnt forcedepth for nvidia based gfx and network) if so my gfx are ati and network is gigabit.

[agrafuese]

ah yeah, forcedeth is for nforce lan. very strange...i haven't a clue as to why you're experiencing those issues. we should all just have a "switch-to-intel" party. anyone in? i'll bring the chips and salsa ;)

[emaxxx]

I don't want to stress much about this, but I had the same issues as you with torrent and amule and now I'm 3 days stable 24/7. I founded that the APIC setting in BIOS was the matter. Plus I set the IRQ not being assigned automatically. I think this is a problem related to 2 core AMDs. Nobody told me to do this, but after month of trying everything possible this was what kept me from buyng another system. I also used the idlehalt=0 fn=3 parameter.

[agrafuese]

so are you still using idlehalt=0 now? and what does fn=3 do?
what did you do with your APIC setting? on, off, ?

[Ianxxx]

agrafuese:Yeah, that app doesn't work for AMDs...tried it some time ago.

So Ianxxx, you went with the DS3L??? I thought you were gonna go with that other cheapo board? That's good news though, because that's the board I want. Glad to hear another account of the DS3L working great. IMO, 2-channel audio is fine. It's all I use. Besides, I've never had anything more than that with my AMD anyway!

Oh, but AMD users may still have a fighting chance to have a stable system! Did anyone see that JaS is back on the scene?? Check it out: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=92524

I was all smiles when I read the news, but he wont be making an AMD release for quite some time it seems. Still, it's something to look forward to! :D

When I went shopping the place I use only had DS3Ls in stock so I thought what the hell. It seems certain components are very in demand. E2180s for isntance. I bought an E2160 unfortunatly it will only clock to 2700 but hell it's running at 25degrees 1.375v so I can live with that. If you do get one of these boards the only downsides I can see are, reports of max bus speed 450mhz (but I think thats high enough as far as I'm concerned) and it seems a little fussy with memory bought 800mhz 444-12 memory it runs at 555-15 but again it will do this at 900mhz default voltage no problem. I used kalyways disc to install and his 10.5.2 update, then just updated everything by software update. Results seem almost perfect, even X11 working. Xbench scores:

[agrafuese]

Good stuff man. My #1 priority for a mobo is that it is compatible with Leopard to the point of feeling like a real mac. I had it this way on my current system with Tiger, and I intend to get it back in Leopard with an Intel system. I honestly could care less about overclocking. I figure if I really cared that much about speeding things up, I'd rather just put another $100-$200 into a better processor or more RAM. Overclocking is fun and interesting, but I really don't enjoy it as much as others might. It's a bit tedious for me, and I'm constantly paranoid that I'm going to do something wrong. I just want a stable system. So the DS3L sounds like a perfect board as far as that is concerned. As far as a processor goes, I'm a little torn between getting a Q6600 or an E6850. I'm still not clear on whether or not the quad-core would even do anything for me in Leopard, and the E6850 is stock at 3.0ghz with a higher FSB. It's only a $20 difference between the two, so I'm a little on the fence there. Ianxxx, do you know if quad-core would be beneficial at all? Keep in mind OC isn't a concern for me...

[Ianxxx]

agrafuese:Good stuff man. My #1 priority for a mobo is that it is compatible with Leopard to the point of feeling like a real mac. I had it this way on my current system with Tiger, and I intend to get it back in Leopard with an Intel system. I honestly could care less about overclocking. I figure if I really cared that much about speeding things up, I'd rather just put another $100-$200 into a better processor or more RAM. Overclocking is fun and interesting, but I really don't enjoy it as much as others might. It's a bit tedious for me, and I'm constantly paranoid that I'm going to do something wrong. I just want a stable system. So the DS3L sounds like a perfect board as far as that is concerned. As far as a processor goes, I'm a little torn between getting a Q6600 or an E6850. I'm still not clear on whether or not the quad-core would even do anything for me in Leopard, and the E6850 is stock at 3.0ghz with a higher FSB. It's only a $20 difference between the two, so I'm a little on the fence there. Ianxxx, do you know if quad-core would be beneficial at all? Keep in mind OC isn't a concern for me...

As far as I understand it quads come into there own when doing things like converting video files etc. It's a tough one because you have to take into account each piece of software, can it use quad core? If I where you and I was going to spend that type of money I'd consider an E8400 you can get an oem for around Ģ120 or a boxed version for Ģ140, 3Ghz 6mb cache 45 nano tech.as far as I know there is no problem with OS X. I know you said you're not interested in overclocking but reports are that this processor will easily overclock to 4Ghz I think that says something about the processor overclocked or not.

[roisoft]

Hi!

I have an intel system as well (GA-P35-DS4-E6850-4gb-7600gt) look my xbench, maybe this can help you.
I have leo installed in a software raid.

http://www.imagehut.eu/images/17892SOFTRAID.png

[Ianxxx]

roisoft:Hi!

I have an intel system as well (E6850-4gb-7600gt) look my xbench, maybe this can help you.
I have leo installed in a software raid.

http://www.imagehut.eu/images/17892SOFTRAID.png

roisoft what make of hard drives are you using, I was just wondering wether to set up software raid or buy a better hard drive?

[roisoft]

2 x 400 WD 16mb cache and 2x 320 Samsung 16mb , same performance +- (both)

[agrafuese]

@roisoft, your bench scores are absolutely sexy. is your DS4 board working 100% with full-features? anything not working? are you overclocking? is your leopard vanilla?

@Ianxxx, thanks for the advice. I'll check that CPU out.

[Ianxxx]

roisoft how come your graphics scores are so high? You easily outscore my xfx7900gs?
Also could you tell me what kext you use to recognise all 4 sata ports?

[mrburns05]

yeah my 7900 gt/ko @ 580/1680 gets

Quartz Graphics Test 174.14
Line 132.96 8.85 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 180.65 53.93 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 148.21 12.08 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 139.63 3.52 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 572.67 35.82 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 108.79
Spinning Squares 108.79 138.00 frames/sec

[roisoft]

E6850=3.4ghz( 24/7) +400mhz OC, 3.8 (stable), 3.95 my top score, but i donīt want to force too much and i donīt need it because the performance is awesome. All the P35-DS series are perfect for OS X, workig 100%, ethernet, 6+2 Sata2, E-sata works, Sleep/Reboot works, Shutdown 50%, 100% stable. Digital Out/In works perfect, and if you want 5.1 you need set up an agregate device in midi preferences and thatīs all.

Iīve installed from retail dvd adding dsmos.kext, efi-strings for audio and Gfx, and deleting AppleIntelCpupowermanagement.kext .. thatīs all you need.

Iīve enabled the QuartzGL and disable the Beamsync for do this open a terminal and type


sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver QuartzGLEnabled -boolean YES

sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver Compositor -dict deferredUpdates 0

LogOut-IN

http://www.imagehut.eu/images/537827600.png

[Firewalk]

So the answer to the AMD problem is to buy a new intel board and CPU. Joy...

[roisoft]

Iīm not saying this, I īm very happy with my 3 amd systems, i love them, I donīt have this kind of problems with them...Did you try another install method? I always use a retail dvd from a spare partition.

[Puttabong]

I'm very happy with my AMD as well ;)

Works flawlessly since 10.5.1 Rev.2 Beta (Out of the Box for my system), which I still use - (updated with eddie11c's updater to 10.5.2)

[Firewalk]

Me too, but i just cant seem to get leopard to stop crashing. i have sorted the mad mouse movement bug and tons of others mainly driver related problems i'd been having. but it seems me and others just cant get a stable system ie random crashing, torrents,cant leave on overnight as it crashes. the reason for my above post was, it seems looking at this thread that alot of people have just gone out and bought intel to overcome there problems. please dont feel that i am unaprecitive of all the hard work the devs have done and all the support recieved. i do enjoy the 4-5 hours i can use leopard before a crash its just a tad frustrating..

Firewalk

[bhast2]

what do you have for ram in your system???


Firewalk:Me too, but i just cant seem to get leopard to stop crashing. i have sorted the mad mouse movement bug and tons of others mainly driver related problems i'd been having. but it seems me and others just cant get a stable system ie random crashing, torrents,cant leave on overnight as it crashes. the reason for my above post was, it seems looking at this thread that alot of people have just gone out and bought intel to overcome there problems. please dont feel that i am unaprecitive of all the hard work the devs have done and all the support recieved. i do enjoy the 4-5 hours i can use leopard before a crash its just a tad frustrating..

Firewalk

[Firewalk]

Hi bhast2, I have 4x1 gig ddr2 800mhz unbuffered.. not sure of the brand but its heatsinked.

[seren]

Loving those black window decorations how did you change those? i cant find any UI mods for leopard with shapeshifter not compatible.

roisoft:E6850=3.4ghz( 24/7) +400mhz OC, 3.8 (stable), 3.95 my top score, but i donīt want to force too much and i donīt need it because the performance is awesome. All the P35-DS series are perfect for OS X, workig 100%, ethernet, 6+2 Sata2, E-sata works, Sleep/Reboot works, Shutdown 50%, 100% stable. Digital Out/In works perfect, and if you want 5.1 you need set up an agregate device in midi preferences and thatīs all.

Iīve installed from retail dvd adding dsmos.kext, efi-strings for audio and Gfx, and deleting AppleIntelCpupowermanagement.kext .. thatīs all you need.

Iīve enabled the QuartzGL and disable the Beamsync for do this open a terminal and type


sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver QuartzGLEnabled -boolean YES

sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver Compositor -dict deferredUpdates 0

LogOut-IN

http://www.imagehut.eu/images/537827600.png

[bhast2]

i had problems with my system crashing all the time
i had 4GB of ram and when i pulled one of them out it quit crashing
just an idea but pull one of your sticks out and see what happens

Firewalk:Hi bhast2, I have 4x1 gig ddr2 800mhz unbuffered.. not sure of the brand but its heatsinked.

[agrafuese]

@roisoft and puttabong:

i couldn't help but look up your signatures over at insanelymac and i happened to notice something veeerryyy interesting:

puttabong: RAM - 1 GB Kingston HyperX DDR
roisoft: RAM - 2GB Kingston HyperX PC3200

okay, it might be a little coincidence, but could it be the reason? roisoft, what are your other 2 AMDs using for RAM?

and finally the big question:

ARE YOU GUYS RUNNING TORRENTS?!??!??! (and if so, for how long?)

sorry, I'll calm down now. ;)

[bhast2]

after pulling that 1 ram stick out
i am running torrents now just download about 10GB worth of stuff and no problems what so ever
i was burning a movie and viewing the web and had photoshop open and my system didn't crash at all
no sign of crashing no lag no nothen
I HAVE NOT HAD A SYSTEM CRASH IN 36 HOURS OR ERRORS!!!!!!!! i even got ilife working great

[roisoft]

2 x A8N32-Sli dlx with 2 gb Kingston HyperX 3200(both) 4200/4600 x2
1 x GA-K8N-Sli with 2GB Kingston Value Ram. 4000+

I use Azureus for Mac & utorrent via VMware Fusion (the best option for me) 5/6 dowloads simultaneuosly , Iīm using wifi adapters 2 x Asus WL-138G v2 (broadcom chipset) working perfect like airport and appleyukon.kext from tiger for my A8N32-sli , i donīt use forcedeth. How long? all the time i need.

I always install from retail dvd patched with marvin, restored into a spare partition.

[Firewalk]

Hi bhast, thanks for your advice. i have now removed 2 gig of ram from the system will test and let you know. although i have tried this before (but i did have different problems at the time..

Firewalk

[bhast2]

i hope it works because when you get your system running right you will never work with windows or linux or whatever again


Firewalk:Hi bhast, thanks for your advice. i have now removed 2 gig of ram from the system will test and let you know. although i have tried this before (but i did have different problems at the time..

Firewalk

[agrafuese]

@roisoft: so you don't use zephyroth's releases?? what method do you use to restore the DVD into spare partition? just normal Diskutility? And is there a method you use to make the installer bootable? and what version of the Leopard install DVD do you use?

also, thanks for the info on the wireless adapters. i may check them out. i've always hated the idea of getting a new lan adapter when i already have two built into my mobo (marvell and nLan), but if it's a wireless adapter, i wouldn't mind.

[roisoft]

I have an external disk (usb/firewire), with 1 working leo, 1 tiger and 1 partition for installers. I like to see all the installers (zephyroth, iatkos, kalyway, eddie11c, XxX, tubgirl...).

I use the retail dvd 10.5.0, apply the efi bootloader for that partition and copy mach_kernel (toh), dsmos, AppleNforce..and delete Appleintelcpu,,,finally patch with marvin the partition. Donīt forget once the install finishes you need repeat the steps with the new install (copy kernel,dsmos....patch with marvin).

[agrafuese]

thanks for the info, i'll give it a try when i have some more free time. do you find that using the retail DVD has any advantages over Zeph's DVDs, or is it just for your own peace of mind?

[mrburns05]

riosoft!

how the heck is your graphics/OpenGL scores in xbench so high?

i have a 7900GT/KO that scores far lower than your 7600

my clock speeds are even factory oc'ed @ 580/1680

[agrafuese]

there is something magical about the 7600. it's favored by OSX, apparently. i can tell you that scores with my 8800GT are nowhere NEAR the ones roisoft is getting. actually, OSX hates my card :\

[roisoft]

Real mac users use the retail dvd, so i like to be more close possible to real mac you know ?...donīt get me wrong, zephīs releases are great and i think his work is awesome, admirable and amd users must be very happy and thankful.. [is this the word? sorry for my english :) ]

I have a 7950gt as well and 7600 have better results... the relation drivers/card are perfect.

[agrafuese]

hey roisoft, i'm going to send you a PM over at insanelymac. :)

[mrburns05]

hmm...i guess that explains it then ...i thought maybe i had a problem to fix, hehe. thanks for explaining.

[ghostdex]

emaxxx:Hi guys.
I had this issue (mouse jumping and reboots after hours of bittorrent and heavy download overnight) a while ago (10.5.1) and after reinstalling Leopard many times, replacing kext and hardware components like usb2 and network i found It could probably be related to APIC implementation in BIOS. What led me to this was the fact that my crash happens overnight or after waking up from the screensaver. So I tought about ACPI problems. All of this only happened when running both CPUS. With cpus=1 all worked well. Searching around I found that some users had issues even in windows with heavy overclock and dual core AMDs related to APIC Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller that in dual core processors could led to some stability issues. The solution for me was to select the 1.1 version in Bios and not the 1.4 (default). Also I set the IRQ manually. I have a NF4 DFI Ultra-D motherboard. Hope this helps.

This solved my issues, too!

[agrafuese]

ghostdex:This solved my issues, too!
I actually looked into my BIOS for the APIC setting, and mine was grayed out for some reason. It also looked like I would only have the choice between "on" or "off" ...so I don't think it would have let me pick a version number, like emaxxx said. So no go for me.

[seren]

On my board its called MPS Version control i have a DFI Ultra-ii-m2 Nforce4-Ultra

[Firewalk]

My system finally seems stable 48 hrs uptime no bugs, used transmission for torrents still fine, stress tested to hell and back, all seems ok. for me the answer was to remove 2 gig of ram from my 4 gig system now working like a charm..thanks to the devs and all the people on the forums for there help..

Firewalk

[bhast2]

its something with 4 gigs of ram that kills the system

Firewalk:My system finally seems stable 48 hrs uptime no bugs, used transmission for torrents still fine, stress tested to hell and back, all seems ok. for me the answer was to remove 2 gig of ram from my 4 gig system now working like a charm..thanks to the devs and all the people on the forums for there help..

Firewalk

[Firewalk]

Hi bhast2, do you think 3 gig would be ok..if so in what banks..

Firewalk

[seren]

I have 4gb ram and i had this same problem. I had to turn OFF "Memory Hole Remapping" or Remap Memory Hole some BIOS are different. I found this option in my DRAM setting menu where i set CAS/RAS/TRCD /etc..

bhast2:its something with 4 gigs of ram that kills the system

Firewalk:My system finally seems stable 48 hrs uptime no bugs, used transmission for torrents still fine, stress tested to hell and back, all seems ok. for me the answer was to remove 2 gig of ram from my 4 gig system now working like a charm..thanks to the devs and all the people on the forums for there help..

Firewalk

[bhast2]

3 gigs are fine i have mine in Dimm1 Dimm 2 Dimm 4
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7562/picture1gv6.png
Firewalk:Hi bhast2, do you think 3 gig would be ok..if so in what banks..

Firewalk

[Firewalk]

Thank You bhast2, setup as per your instructions, working fine cheers again..

[subsonic]

Just a thought:

Whom of you guys with the choppy mouse is using Firefox as their main browser? I had those problems too, i stopped using Firefox anx anything releated to it (i.e. Thunderbird) and i had no crashes for 2 days (47 hours uptime). Could it be related to Firefox?

[Ianxxx]

That's what I was thinking originally but someone said they don't use it just Safari and still had the problem.

[farcaller]

idlehalt seem to do the trick. but the problem is that my CPU fan is controlled by OSX and it doesn't want to speed up, so I gave up with this idea. Will try with single-core boot.

[agrafuese]

Just thought I'd chime in and say I made the move over to Intel :)
I needed to get serious, and working with an AMD felt like playing with a little toy. I'm not sure what my experience will be like with this new setup, as I've only just put it all together, but I installed from the Retail DVD, replaced a few kexts, and it's running beautifully so far. Just to give a little perspective:

AMD 3800+ (2.0ghz stock)
1GB 400mhz RAM
Nvidia 8800GT 512MB
---------------------------
xBench score = 116 (at best, with no disk test)

Intel 6750 (2.6ghz stock)
2GB 800mhz RAM
Nvidia 6200TC 64MB (old school)
---------------------------
xBench score = 230 avg. (no disk test)

I'll be testing out my new system with the 8800GT later, but will probably keep the 6200 in it just because I still want to use my AMD for gaming. Also, I may be swapping out the E6750 for an E8400 in a few days. Either way, I really can't complain about a 100% performance increase.

[Ianxxx]

agrafuese:Just thought I'd chime in and say I made the move over to Intel :)
I needed to get serious, and working with an AMD felt like playing with a little toy. I'm not sure what my experience will be like with this new setup, as I've only just put it all together, but I installed from the Retail DVD, replaced a few kexts, and it's running beautifully so far. Just to give a little perspective:

AMD 3800+ (2.0ghz stock)
1GB 400mhz RAM
Nvidia 8800GT 512MB
---------------------------
xBench score = 116 (at best, with no disk test)

Intel 6750 (2.6ghz stock)
2GB 800mhz RAM
Nvidia 6200TC 64MB (old school)
---------------------------
xBench score = 230 avg. (no disk test)

I'll be testing out my new system with the 8800GT later, but will probably keep the 6200 in it just because I still want to use my AMD for gaming. Also, I may be swapping out the E6750 for an E8400 in a few days. Either way, I really can't complain about a 100% performance increase.

Welcome to the new club lol.
I wouldn't mind seeing your xbench scores, what mobo did you buy?

[agrafuese]

Hey Ian, no prob bud. I'll send you a bunch of different benches at insanelymac after I am finished doing some tests today - don't want to mix too much Intel talk over here, hehe. I'll be trying out AHCI vs IDE, time machine tests, may possibly swap in the 8800GT, and also might try out the 9.2.2 hacked kernel. At the moment, I am using the retail 9.2.2 kernel and it works really well! I get shutdown/restart, but I haven't tried sleep yet. See you over at insanelymac. :)

EDIT: Wow! Sleep works, and wake works with power button-tap!! :D So I have a 100% working retail/vanilla system.

[subsonic]

Same here, i'm going to say bye bye to AMD soon. I'm tired of having a not perfectly running OS since i need to work with it. It's not just some fun. I know, some ppl might say "then use another, stable OS". Anyways, my decision is to use Leopard so i do whatever is necessary to get it stable (except buying a real and overpriced Mac).

So i've ordered the same hardware lanxxx got:
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 4 x 2,4GHz
and 4 Gig Kingston HyperX 2 GB Kit DDR2-1066

I'll give it a try with 4 gigs, i'm sure it'll work =) At least i hope so ^

[agrafuese]

yeah 4 gigs will work, i think. i only have 2, but one of the guides i read for DS3* boards said there's a way to get it to work. just can't remember right now :) i'm with you on the importance of a stable system. i have a feeling that a good number of people on these forums either don't run anything demanding on their systems, or they just don't use their systems enough to notice the issues we've been having. but, hell, i'll keep running my AMD as a hackintosh with Tubgirl 10.4.10 ... but that's about all it's good for in the hackintosh realm. :\

[Ianxxx]

agrafuese:Hey Ian, no prob bud. I'll send you a bunch of different benches at insanelymac after I am finished doing some tests today - don't want to mix too much Intel talk over here, hehe. I'll be trying out AHCI vs IDE, time machine tests, may possibly swap in the 8800GT, and also might try out the 9.2.2 hacked kernel. At the moment, I am using the retail 9.2.2 kernel and it works really well! I get shutdown/restart, but I haven't tried sleep yet. See you over at insanelymac. :)

EDIT: Wow! Sleep works, and wake works with power button-tap!! :D So I have a 100% working retail/vanilla system.

When I use vanilla kernel shutdown only works now and again what release etc. are you using? I can't find a hacked 9.2.2 kernel, or do you mean the one thats floating round this forum?
also subsonic if you get board with ICH9R then I don't think you have a problem if you get board with 9ICH then you need to use the new driver for it.

[Almas]

I'm going to put my 2 cents out there, I have been looking at this problem for this past 2 weeks and I've carefully monitored the work load on my pc. What I found was I don't have the performance bog monster until I play about 2 hours of warcraft 3. After that you can clearly see the Warcraft 3 menus moving up and down sparaticly, at that moment everything goes glitchy and mouse movements crazy that exact moment when warcraft 3 for me hits the crazy menu bars movement is when the bogging starts. That's all I really know from now but I can maintain a controlled environment, until I get into warcraft 3, warcraft 3 is a guarantee catalyst to the problem. It's the only application that can cause the mystery system bog monster :P. Hope that helps somehow.

My Specs;

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
2GB Patriot Dual Channel 3-3-3-8 Ram
AMD Opteron 180
8800GT

I'm all for someone brilliant fixing this problem! :D

[Almas]

Is there anyway yet known to prolong the strange problem clearing memory erasing cache something?

[R0GUE]

It seems that memory intensive apps can cause issues, as prolonged use of Photoshop CS3 causes this bug too. Adjusting the memory/performance settings within PS itself can stave off the bug for a while longer, but eventually it catches up. It's the only app that causes this for me which is a great shame as I use PS quite a lot.

[rohitkpatil]

Hi,

I am running Leo4all v3 10.5.2

I also had this issue, but when i switched from PCI WiFi card (D-Link DWL-G510 Rev c) to the USB WiFi stick(D-Link DWL-G122) , the problem solved.

Xbench score = 155 (Without Disk Test)

Xbench Score = 122 (With Disk Test)

My sys config::

AMD Athlon FX-60 @ 2.6 GHz
Asus A8N -SLI Deluxe
2 GB Mushkin DDR500 Ram @ 400 MHz
eVGA 8800GT SC 512 MB (GFX-String with NVinstaller.41 and patched Div ID Files, QE / CI Enabled)
Asus SATA DVD-RW
Seagate 250 GB SATA II HDD

[rohitkpatil]

One more update :
For people who having Logitech Mouse, there is Logitech driver and control utility for Mac OS x on Apple's site.

I found serious improvement using my Logitech USB keyboard/mouse.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/drivers/logitechcontrolcenter.html

check out

[StealthMode]

I only notice the mouse stutter bug when I am transferring large files, across HD's for instance. Otherwise everything works great. Is it something to do with the ata/sata drivers?

[snyder9]

seren:On my board its called MPS Version control i have a DFI Ultra-ii-m2 Nforce4-Ultra

Same on mine. I got a DFI Lanparty Nforce 4 SLI-DR.
Just switched it to 1.1
Will report back on what happens.

[rohitkpatil]

one more suggestion, in motherboard BIOS, try changing your ACPI -APIC settings. Try S3.

Avoid S1 and S3 together.

[snyder9]

snyder9: seren:On my board its called MPS Version control i have a DFI Ultra-ii-m2 Nforce4-Ultra

Same on mine. I got a DFI Lanparty Nforce 4 SLI-DR.
Just switched it to 1.1
Will report back on what happens.
System running for 30+ hours now. One Firefox crash (probably website related).
No mouse movement bug though as yet. :)

[snyder9]

Unfortunately about 5-6 hours later, the mouse movement bug reappeared along with some weird behavior in Safari and segmentation errors repeatedly crashing Adium.
I changed the ACPI settings to S3 but this didn't seem to help.
Installed the 9.2.2 kernel, and though the system felt a little smoother - the mouse bug was still persistent.

Would this bug show up if I install leo4allv3?

[rohitkpatil]

snyder9:Unfortunately about 5-6 hours later, the mouse movement bug reappeared along with some weird behavior in Safari and segmentation errors repeatedly crashing Adium.
I changed the ACPI settings to S3 but this didn't seem to help.
Installed the 9.2.2 kernel, and though the system felt a little smoother - the mouse bug was still persistent.

Would this bug show up if I install leo4allv3?

I am using Leo4all v3, and i have no problems, so i guess you can give it a shot.

[Voyn1x]

I've reverted to using CPUS=1 until a proper fix has been found :(

Stability is more important to me than performance. Nothing worse than an app quitting and losing work!

[Puttabong]

Voyn1x, if you haven't already, try Leo4Allv3. It might solve the problem.

However, I use zephy's release and it seems to work fine, even after about 10 hours of uptime.

[R0GUE]

You seem to be one of the lucky ones Puttabong. My machine runs great, but as soon as I start loading files into Photoshop, run a few filters and layer styles, the bug appears and a reboot is necessary. I'm toying with installing Leo4All until my Intel kit arrives.

[Voyn1x]

@Puttabong, yeah i've thought about it - i'm hoping it might of fixed itself after updating to 10.5.3. I haven't got around to trying it again without CPUS=1 yet.

I'll report back when I have. :)

[snyder9]

rohitkpatil: snyder9:Unfortunately about 5-6 hours later, the mouse movement bug reappeared along with some weird behavior in Safari and segmentation errors repeatedly crashing Adium.
I changed the ACPI settings to S3 but this didn't seem to help.
Installed the 9.2.2 kernel, and though the system felt a little smoother - the mouse bug was still persistent.

Would this bug show up if I install leo4allv3?

I am using Leo4all v3, and i have no problems, so i guess you can give it a shot.

Can you tell me what all you have changed in the BIOS (if anything) to solve the problem?
Memory Timings, APIC, etc.

The stuttering problems usually for me occurs after watching 720p content which puts a lot of strain on my 4200+X2 with VLC.

Also, does it matter that I have 512mb x 4 running in dual channel in my system? I read earlier in this thread that someone solved the problem running 3gb instead or 4gb. Is this the same sort of problem?

[Ianxxx]

snyder9: rohitkpatil: snyder9:Unfortunately about 5-6 hours later, the mouse movement bug reappeared along with some weird behavior in Safari and segmentation errors repeatedly crashing Adium.
I changed the ACPI settings to S3 but this didn't seem to help.
Installed the 9.2.2 kernel, and though the system felt a little smoother - the mouse bug was still persistent.

Would this bug show up if I install leo4allv3?

I am using Leo4all v3, and i have no problems, so i guess you can give it a shot.

Can you tell me what all you have changed in the BIOS (if anything) to solve the problem?
Memory Timings, APIC, etc.

The stuttering problems usually for me occurs after watching 720p content which puts a lot of strain on my 4200+X2 with VLC.

Also, does it matter that I have 512mb x 4 running in dual channel in my system? I read earlier in this thread that someone solved the problem running 3gb instead or 4gb. Is this the same sort of problem?

Your memory configuration should make no difference the 4gb problem is caused by 32 bit limitations. As for solving the mouse movement bug as far as I know the only cure is still the idle halt in com.apple.boot.plist "see earlier in this thread". If you use it keep a close eye on your processor temperature.

[Voyn1x]

I thought IDLEHALT=0 had cured it for me initially, but after working for a period of time in photoshop the jumpy mouse came back unfortunately :(

It only seems to delay the problem.

[naquaada]

Have you tested the keyboard mouse? Go in System Preferences -> Universal Access -> Mouse and switch on the keyboard mouse. Now you should be able to control the pointer with the numpad keys.

Have you a function 'USB Legacy support' enabled in BIOS? Some computers have problems with mouse and/or keyboard if it's enabled.

[R0GUE]

Voyn1x:I thought IDLEHALT=0 had cured it for me initially, but after working for a period of time in photoshop the jumpy mouse came back unfortunately :(

It only seems to delay the problem.
Exactly the same problem here mate.

[naquaada]

Hm, the only problems with mouse I ever had were artefacts caused by a wrong gfx driver. On 5 machines, all using Logitech PS/2 mouse/keyboard combos. But USB works too.

I read a long time ago that AMD stuttering problems could be solved to set the CPU multiplicator to a .5 value if the BIOS supports this. so 10.5 insted of 11. But this was maily ment to Dual-Core CPU problems.

[R0GUE]

I'm going to try running with the cpus=1 flag and see how that works out. From what I gather it might well be attributed to a timing issue between the two cores, so rather than use idlehalt flag I'll see how this pans out.

[snyder9]

cpus=1 is very stable for me.
It's not ideal though if I you can't use both cores. I can barely play 720p with one core only.

As for the multiplicator, if I change it to 10.5 what else do I have to adjust as my system does not POST on this setting.
FSB is at 200 and LDT/FSB freq ratio is on Auto. I have a 4200+ X2.

[naquaada]

It is perhaps depending on the mouse resoulution? My pointer speed is set at the third marker from the left, but I need only 2 x 2 cm to span the 1600 x 1200 pixel screen size. Don't know which resolution my mouse has, maybe 800 or so. It's an optical mouse.

[Voyn1x]

naquaada:Have you tested the keyboard mouse? Go in System Preferences -> Universal Access -> Mouse and switch on the keyboard mouse. Now you should be able to control the pointer with the numpad keys.

Have you a function 'USB Legacy support' enabled in BIOS? Some computers have problems with mouse and/or keyboard if it's enabled.

I do have legacy support enabled in the bios. Surely if it was that then cpus=1 shouldn't make a difference but it does. With this kernel flag my system is solid as a rock, unfortunately losing 25 points off my xbench score in the process :(

@ Rogue, i am inclined to agree it must be a timing issue - seems everyone who has experienced this problem are all running x2 processors.

[naquaada]

I have an Opteron 185, it's a also a Dual-Core cpu, it's working perfectly, no mouse problems. I even use it overclocked from 2,6 Ghz to 2,86 GHz, still no problems.

Do you have the mouse problem already in the installation DVD or in safe mode (boot with -x). Maybe it's a gfx driver problem. I also have deleted all GeForce, NVDA* and other ATI gfx kexts except my RadeonX1000 kexts.

[R0GUE]

My machine has now been up for well over 12 hours without any sign of the bug. Last night I was working in Photoshop without a hitch and after leaving the machine on over night it's still running along quite happily. I'm wondering if certain apps that use SMP are causing the problem - more specifically third party apps. I think it's safe to assume that this is not a 'mouse bug' per se, but a timing issue between the two cores making the system skip and stutter and the mouse pointer to freak out. I'll keep on testing and report back in later.

[naquaada]

Could you tell me your bus frequency and the multiplicator settings? Mine is actually 220 MHz, Multiplicator 13x, Vcore 1.3125 V. I'll test the settings you have when you post them. But I presume you both thave an Athlon 64 X2 processor which have 2x 512K Level-2-Cache. The Opteron series and the FX-60 (Socket 939) have 2x 1MB L2-Cache. I phoned with the AMD support and they said they're replacing the missing 512K with 200MHz more bus frequency.

Was a great game yesterday, Germany-Portugal. I'm no big soccer fan, but it was good for me: I got a 7 Euro Paypal-Coupon from ebay 'cause we're in the semi-final :-D

[Puttabong]

Voyn1x, we have the same CPU, hence I don't believe the mouse stuttering problem is related to Dual Core. Actually I can remember that I had this problem a long time ago, when I was starting with OSx86. I think it must be due to (driver?) incompatibilities because apparently I didn't experience this problem for months, since my machine is configured fine.

Tell me what I shall do to test whether I really don't have the problem - which tasks shall I run?
I use a lot of resources of my machine and most of the time got it running for several hours.

[Voyn1x]

@naquadda,

I'll be able to give my bios settings tomorrow, i'm away from my hack until then :)

@Puttabong,

Try running some heavy filters in photoshop, or do something cpu intensive.

The problem doesn't normally appear until at least 10hrs+ have passed. You'll notice it most if you try to drag a window around, you should see it jump about. Leave Firefox open and see if it quits with a 'divide by zero' error at all, it normally quits every couple of hours for me.

Eventually you should start to get the 10810 error which is only fixable by logging out and back in again. I believe this is all related to the mouse bug since all of these issues are solved if i you boot with cpus=1.

[Voyn1x]

to add, when using cpus=1 my system was up for 2 weeks with no reboots or errors of any kind.

[naquaada]

Firefox 2 quits several times this is true. Preview exits if I use the 'Undo' function too often (Alt-Z/Option-Z).

I just tested something with CPU load: A Logic 8 project with 69-tracks, 5.1 surround realtime mixing with fullscreen video and playing a DivX movie (widescreen but full screen width) with Quicktime simultaneously. I could move the windows around VERY fast and smooth, no problems at all. Each CPU needed about 70-80%.

[R0GUE]

@naquuada; you are running Leo4All correct?

[naquaada]

Yes. Leo4All+ 10.5.3 AMD Update. But I also had no problems with Zephyroth 10.5.1 RC2. I now will install a new 10.5.1 RC2 plus a full patching to 10.5.3 with the combined Apple Software update using Zephyroth's Updater. I must check why Xcode crashes during installation.

[R0GUE]

I'm running on an upgraded Zeph 10.5.2 RC1

[naquaada]

Only to compare: I'm using a Socket 939 CPU with nForce 4 SLI chipset. Are you guys using AM2 and a nForce 5xx chipset?

[Puttabong]

DFI UT nF4 Ultra-D (nForce 4) & Socket 939.

[R0GUE]

AM2 nForce 570 MCP

[naquaada]

Ahaa. Have you checked your CPU and bus speed now in System Profiler?

[R0GUE]

I can't right now as I'm at work, but why do you ask?

[naquaada]

Only for comparison. Maybe I can try the same settings, but I presume your total CPU frquency (bus*multiplier) is higher than I can set mine.

Wow, Zephyroth's Updater found 132 cpuids in the combined 10.5.3 update. It's 549 MB in size.

[R0GUE]

iirc the system profiler does not correctly report the Bus Speed correctly. It states mine as being 200Mhz when in fact it should be 2Ghz (2 x 1000Mhz).

edit: Maybe I am wrong about the Bus Speed reading - I'm probably getting confused with the HT speed. :\

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/athlon64-x2-6000/cpu-3014.png

[naquaada]

No, the update from 10.5.1 -> 10.5.3 was not working. I have always errors on loginwindow, atsserver and mds.

[R0GUE]

22 hours of up time using CPUS=1 boot flag and my machine is still rock solid. I've spent some time in Photoshop creating artwork and applying filters with no visible sign of performance degradation.

Any Leo4All users experiencing this bug or is it just those of us using Zeph?

For now I can live with one core @3Ghz (though not ideal) until either A) I install Leo4All or B) my Intel kit arrives.

[naquaada]

Can you reduce the CPU clock speed in the BIOS? As I o'clocked my system to 3.06 GHz (on 10.5.2) it crashed, couldn't boot anymore. On 10.5.3 I can't have to stay beneath 3 GHz. The actual Macs also only have 3.06 Ghz max, could the high cpu speed be the problem?

[R0GUE]

@naquaada: I'll take a look at my bios settings in due course, but I first want to test this machine thoroughly before rebooting. So far it has been up for over 24 hours and I've hammered it without so much as a hitch. It's definitely a Dual Core problem as far as I am concerned.

[StealthMode]

It has to be, before I upgraded my A64 3200+ to my Opteron 165 x2 I didn't have this problem.

[R0GUE]

I've been speaking with JaS about this and he's convinced that this is a TSC timing issue. He's kindly going to find out about getting a patch to fix the timing issue. I'll keep you all posted.

http://developer.amd.com/assets/TSC_Dual-Core_Utility.pdf

[Voyn1x]

That's really good news! Rogue, after reading that pdf you linked, this would also explain those strange time correction entries in the console when running both cores. eg.

3/18/08 8:41:32 AM mDNSResponder[17] mDNSPlatformRawTime went backwards by 4 ticks; setting correction factor to 206737245

[naquaada]

Vony1x: You also have a Socket AM2 board I presume. Could this be a problem, maybe because of the DDR2 RAM? Puttabong and me have Socket 939 and it's working fine here. Have you disabled Cool'n'Quiet in the BIOS? I have it enabled.

[Voyn1x]

nope socket 939... Cool'n'Quiet not sure if i have an option for that, i'll have a look

[Voyn1x]

after a bit of research (ie. Google), it seems there's no way to disable Cool'n'Quiet on my mobo :(

@ Rogue, do you have an option for CnQ in yours, If so is it enabled?

[naquaada]

What kind of motherboard do you have?

EDIT: Found it in your account infos. Which version is it? there are three (http://www.gigabyte.us/Search/Search_List.aspx?Keyword=GA-K8NF-9&SearchType=Spec) different.

EDIT2: Here is the manual for the version GA-K8NF-9-RH (http://asia.giga-byte.com/FileList/Manual/motherboard_manual_k8nf-9-rh_e.pdf). I presume the BIOS versions are rather similar.

EDIT3: I Checked the BIOS setting and the complete manual, not a word about Cool'n'Quiet. This is crazy.

Have you tried to disable all unneccessary devices? Today this could be Floppy controller, LAN Boot ROM (is your onboard LAN working?), Parallel Port, Modem Port, Gameport, MIDI Port. If you use a PS/2 mouse and keyboard, I would set all three Legacy USB options to 'disabled'. In the 'MB Intelligent Tewaker' settings must be an option 'CPU Spread Spectrum', disable it.

[R0GUE]

Voyn1x:after a bit of research (ie. Google), it seems there's no way to disable Cool'n'Quiet on my mobo :(

@ Rogue, do you have an option for CnQ in yours, If so is it enabled?
C'n'Q is located in the Cell menu on my motherboard. Mine is enabled because I don't want my system running at full CPU when in an idle state or merely just chatting and surfing.

[Voyn1x]

mines the Rev 1, onboard lan is disabled... In theory most of the options you've suggested shouldn't make a difference if they're enabled or not since the machine is fine running cpus=1. I'll give disabling the spread spectrum a go to see if that helps at all though.

[R0GUE]

Voyn1x, on your mobo under M.I.T. you have an option named 'K8 CPU Clock Ratio', if that is set to Auto then C'n'Q is enabled, if you've changed it then it's disabled.

[StealthMode]

With idlehalt=0 and cpus=1 I am still having the mouse stuttering bug, more so when Transmission is checking data on an existing torrent. Large file transfers seem to be smoother though.. Still, the mouse movement still stutters. This is in Leo4Allv3 10.5.3.

[snyder9]

3 days 12 hours uptime with cpus=1.

Stable as a rock for me. Using Leo4allv3 10.5.3.

[naquaada]

can't understand it, it works great on my Opteron. Have you tried boot option -legacy? This are my com.apple.boot.plist settings:

<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>Kernel</key>
<string>mach_kernel</string>
<key>Kernel Flags</key>
<string>-legacy</string>
<key>Timeout</key>
<string>3</string>
</dict>
</plist>

I deleted ALF.kext on my system, also all other gfx drivers which I don't need for my own card (Radeon X1000 series).

[Voyn1x]

StealthMode:With idlehalt=0 and cpus=1 I am still having the mouse stuttering bug, more so when Transmission is checking data on an existing torrent. Large file transfers seem to be smoother though.. Still, the mouse movement still stutters. This is in Leo4Allv3 10.5.3.

I think you've got a different issue there, could be something to with your hard disk/network drivers. Do you have any other symptoms? Apps quitting etc..?

[StealthMode]

I get the 1080 error in Zephs after awhile, iChat crahses a lot. Leo4Allv3 seems pretty stable app wise, but the mouse bug is worse I think.
I have a Buffalo WLI-12 wireless nic (broadcom chipset), I did not install the forcedeath kext for the nforce LAN, and I have the marvel LAN installed. (DFI Ultra-D mobo) The bug never shows up till torrents are being checked or I am transferring large files. I'm confused.

[Voyn1x]

Right, this morning(7hrs ago) I disabled the spread spectrum in my bios and booted with the -legacy flag.

To test I opened Firefox, every CS3 application and started playing a 4.3gb wmv-hd file.

I've just got home and all apps had quit on me. I had to logout and back in again because I was getting the -10810 error. Oh well back to the drawing board....

Days logs are below:

23/06/2008 10:15:46 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x19019].org.mozilla.firefox[208]) Exited with exit code: 3
23/06/2008 10:17:42 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x1b01b].com.adobe.illustrator[212]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:17:51 com.apple.launchd[147] (com.apple.ReportCrash[995]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:17:56 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x24024].com.apple.quicktimeplayer[399]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:19:01 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x1d01d].com.adobe.InDesign[214]) Exited: Terminated
23/06/2008 10:19:30 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x1a01a].com.adobe.dreamweaver-9.0[211]) Exited: Terminated
23/06/2008 10:20:09 com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserNotificationCenter[999]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:25:31 Adobe Crash Reporter[1057] Process Id:
23/06/2008 10:25:31 Adobe Crash Reporter[1057] 213
23/06/2008 10:25:31 [0x0-0x1c01c].com.adobe.Photoshop[213] 2008-06-23 10:25:31.523 Adobe Crash Reporter[1057:10b] Process Id:
23/06/2008 10:25:31 [0x0-0x1c01c].com.adobe.Photoshop[213] 2008-06-23 10:25:31.525 Adobe Crash Reporter[1057:10b] 213
23/06/2008 10:25:41 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x1c01c].com.adobe.Photoshop[213]) Exited abnormally: Bus error
23/06/2008 10:26:27 com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserNotificationCenter[1060]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:33:28 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0xa00a].com.apple.systemuiserver[162]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:46:33 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x39039].com.apple.systemuiserver[1075]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 10:54:49 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x3a03a].com.apple.systemuiserver[1081]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 11:41:17 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x3c03c].com.apple.systemuiserver[1088]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 12:17:59 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x41041].com.apple.systemuiserver[1114]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 12:57:43 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x43043].com.apple.systemuiserver[1130]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 13:00:53 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x48048].com.apple.systemuiserver[1151]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 13:01:30 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x4a04a].com.apple.systemuiserver[1157]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 17:49:15 com.apple.launchd[147] ([0x0-0x4b04b].com.apple.systemuiserver[1159]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 17:53:10 com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.launchd.peruser.501[147]) Exited abnormally: Floating point exception
23/06/2008 17:53:13 com.apple.loginwindow[53] LSOpenApplication returned error -10810, path=/System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app
23/06/2008 18:28:48 UserEventAgent[156] CalAlarmAgent :: WARNING: could not launch iCal Helper
23/06/2008 18:38:44 Dock[161] [QL ERROR] Can't get server port for <QLClient com.apple.quicklook>: (ipc/send) invalid destination port
23/06/2008 18:38:44 com.apple.loginwindow[53] LSOpenApplication returned error -10810, path=/System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app

[naquaada]

Have you tested a second time? I'm not sure that these erros are because of the BIOS setting and the -legacy flag. Man, I'm working with Logic and it works! Only Firefox seems to crash the system sometimes.

[Voyn1x]

No these are the errors I get normally when running both cores - basically there was no change after making the amends to the com.apple.boot.plist and bios. I really think changing my mobo is the only solution for the time being (or sticking with cpus=1).

[R0GUE]

Even after two hours of uptime with the -legacy flag I got the dreaded -10810 error. Back to cpus=1 ...

[naquaada]

when do you get this error?

[ClawHammer]

Hi All

I was having the mouse bug and random crashes particularly with transmission but also Quicktime and Safari and also apparently I was getting random restarts as well. I tried a few different things but the kernel flags notsc=1 and nohpet=1 seem to be doing the trick. My system has been stable now for 2 days with only 1 safari crash. Before I was lucky to get 3 hours out of it. The cpus=1 did the trick as well, but if I can be stable and dual-core, I'll take it.

Specs:
Athlon 64 X2 6000+
3GB DDR2 667
Geforce 7900 GS
Apple USB Keyboard
Logitech MX400 mouse
OS X 10.5.3 (Leo4Allv3 updated)

[StealthMode]

What do those kernel flags do?

[ClawHammer]

It is my understanding that notsc flag keeps the kernel from checking the time stamp counters on the cores of the cpu. AMD time stamp counters have a tendency to drift apart from one another, so it can cause strange crashes. I did the nohpet flag because I wasn't sure if I had hpet.

[ClawHammer]

uptime just passed 62 hours, stable as a rock w/ dual core enabled. I think we may have a winner.

[Puttabong]

Amazing News!
I can't wait for Voyn1x and Rogue to confirm that it works - I hope.

Thanks ClawHammer. :-)

[Voyn1x]

I can't believe it, light at the end of the tunnel at last!! Must say I've never heard of these flags until now.

Clawhammer, If this works you're a star... :)

* Adds kernel flags and restarts hack *

[R0GUE]

Thanks ClawHammer! I'm going to try and confirm this when I get back home.

[StealthMode]

I think it fixed my mouse lag when transferring large files across hd's and such. I only used the notsc flag so far. Does this mean I might actually be able to start using Leo full time?!


Edit: maybe not... Might have to add the other kernel flag. Maybe I am having other issues.....
Well, I just realized that my music stutters too when I have the mouse stutter bug (while transferring large files).. Both kernel flags are added, am I having issues with the ATA kext?

[pmcnano]

I couldnt read all the stuff written, its too much, but im having the same problem. My hardware:

GA-K8NXP-SLI
A64 3800+ X2 2ghz @ 2.6ghz (260fsb)
4gb DDR 333mhz @ 420mhz

bla bla....

anyway, i opened all the aplications i had and nothing happened, i do think its something related to the net. Anyway ill wait to see your results with the kernel flag and then ill try ^^! ;)

[R0GUE]

I added four flags to my com.apple.boot.plist and left the machine running over night with several apps running plus a download. In this time frame there have been no 'unexpected quits', -10810 errors or stuttering/lag. I'll keep you all posted.

<key>Kernel Flags</key>
<string>apicpmtimer=1 notsc=1 nohpet=1 cpus=2</string>

[naquaada]

Do you always use the flag cpus=2 ? I don't use it. Is your system gettin slower by disabling HPET ?

[R0GUE]

I don't always use the cpus=2 flag, this is just a test. HPET is just another timing method, and no, it's not got any slower.

[naquaada]

I presume it's for HyPEThreading. But the option notsc ? I have no idea for this.

[R0GUE]

HPET stands for High Precision Event Timer. TSC is Time Stamp Counter.

[naquaada]

Ah!

[pmcnano]

I just noticed that when i was hash-checking my torrents the problem appeared, but when i finished, its normal again, i really dont know WHEN it happens to me. But yesterday happened while i was using excel XD...lol (of course, torrents in background and other apps).

I want any answer, did it worked with the new flags? Thanks

edit: what i mean by "WHEN it happens to me" i mean when it happens and stays like that.....

[Ianxxx]

pmcnano:I just noticed that when i was hash-checking my torrents the problem appeared, but when i finished, its normal again, i really dont know WHEN it happens to me. But yesterday happened while i was using excel XD...lol (of course, torrents in background and other apps).

I want any answer, did it worked with the new flags? Thanks

edit: what i mean by "WHEN it happens to me" i mean when it happens and stays like that.....

I found that it always happened around the 3 hour mark no matter what I was doing

[pmcnano]

I had been without the issue a while, whithout doing anything else, lol.....meh..i want it to happen again to check some stuff on console, etc

[pmcnano]

Well, transmission crashed again, so i reboot with the flags posted (hpet tsc) and it got worse! LOL, they crashed like in a little while and i couldnt open anything again! D:

[ClawHammer]

I have found, sadly, that my system is still not perfectly stable. My mouse movement problem is fixed with the kernel flags, and I needed no restarts for 3 days, but then I got the 10810 error again. It is getting really annoying. Itunes also gave me a division by 0 crash. I know it has to be some problem with multiple cores, but what?

[R0GUE]

After a few days of testing I cannot maintain a stable dual core system with any of the aforementioned flags. Looks like we're going to have to wait for either a patch or switch to Intel. For now I have reverted to using cpus=1 in my config.

[pmcnano]

well mine crashes right now like in 3 days or something, dont know whats the breaking point, but i wont put cpus=1 lol...i dont want to lose my core =)! XD

[naquaada]

I only have the problem that Firefox crashes rather often. Version 2 and 3.

[pmcnano]

meh it had been crashing more often, which "solutions" did you all used? Thanks

[R0GUE]

@pmcnano: Unfortunately it appears to be an AMD dual core issue that needs to be resolved at base code level. For stability, the only solution is to use cpus=1 :-\

[naquaada]

I think it is a board/ram/cpu issue. Puttabongs and my Dual-Core system are working without problems. My system has maybe a speciality: I installed it on a single-core computer with the same board and restored the image on my dual-core machine. Even real big applications like Final Cut and Logic are working without problems. BTW: My new M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge 34-channel audio interface is fantastic!

The only progs which are crashing sometimes are Firefox, Toast and the Quicktime Player, but I have the same problems on my single core machine. I presume these programs fail sometimes because the DivX-Encoder is faulty installed. The DivX Player and the DivX converter are also crashing. Firefox, Toast and Quicktime are all using the DivX-plugin. Bad is that I can't repair DivX even after removing all files, so I have to reinstall the whole system :-P I'll do it again on my single-core machine and copy the finished image to my other machines. I have 4 computers with 3 different boards, but all are using variants of the nForce 4 chipset and using a Radeon X1600, so porting the OS is easy - just restore it with Disk Utility from an image ;-)

[Voyn1x]

Thought i'd chime in with my results. I have found it certainly a lot more stable, going at least 15hrs without issues - where previously it would only manage 3hrs tops before an app would quit. I also haven't experienced the jumpy mouse since adding the flags, but have still received the -10810 error a couple of times after prolonged uptime.

Also Rogue kindly pointed out that Firefox contains 2 cpuids, so I promptly marvinised the bastards. This seemed to have solved the random crashing of FF. I had overlooked this, I've run Marvins in the past but since Mozilla is constantly releasing updates (especially for FF3) I think the cpuids had been rewritten somewhere along the line.

Oh well, new mobo here I come, maybe an intel chip while i'm at it! :)

[pmcnano]

aww i want a new computer too XD.....well....im trying atm this kernel flags, i will report:

<key>Kernel Flags</key>
<string>apicpmtimer=1 notsc=1 nohpet=1 cpus=2 maxmem=3072</string>

Lets see what happens.....atm its working fine..wthout a problem

@All: which distro's are you using?

[naquaada]

Leo4All + 10.5.3 Update by Zephyroth Updater

[Voyn1x]

Zeph 10.5.2 Rev 1 upgraded to 10.5.3 using ASU.

Also using an EFI gfx string, MacNub's AppleSMBIOS27, Modbin 9.3.0 kernel and 9.3.0 system.kext

[pmcnano]

naquaada, I might try Leo4ALL V3 ppf patched to 10.5.3 to see how it goes, anyway, with the kernel flags i had been using for like 12 hours, i didnt had any problem, lets see how it goes ^^

[R0GUE]

Mine is exactly the same as Voyn1x's setup.

[pmcnano]

leo4all with ppf went wrong i cant get it boot, i get kernel panic before anything, i cant even boot in single user mode.

[pmcnano]

I have been reading, theeres a post in insanelymac about the divide by zero crashes on Tiger, it was because the HTT recognition in the kernel, they had to mod some hex parameters to get it working and suppostly it worked flawlesly, what do you think? It has something to do with the kernel recognizing 2 cpu's instead of 2 cores, or something like that.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=24907&hl=divide

What do you think?? hope it helps! ^^

[naquaada]

This was in August 2006, so maybe 10.4.7 or 10.4.8 = 8.4.1 or 8.8.1 kernel. And only two posts... that won't work here, the kernel is totally different now.

What shows System Profiler on your system? It's 1 cpus and 1 cores for me.

[pmcnano]

Same here, it was just a though XD :P

Anyway, i dont know..lol.....I still get some crashes, especially ff and transmission, im not using any kernel flags atm...i just reinstalled and updated. We'll see

[naquaada]

If Transmission and Firefox fails, could the network driver be a problem? What are you using? I'm actually using skge.kext because I had problems with the old forcedeth driver. The forcedeth-v driver is working without problems.

[pmcnano]

Well but its the divide by zero error.

anyway im using a Realtek 8169 card.

So, nvidia drivers are working fine now? The last thing i knew is that it made system's crash

[pmcnano]

bump?..im using cpus=1 atm =(! no crashes or anything, still mouse movement thing when hdd has heavy loads..

[Puttabong]

It seems like I just experienced the Mouse Movement Bug while playing around with Photoshop for a few hours...

Ouch.

[R0GUE]

Finally! :-P

Photoshop does seem to cause the cores to freak out.

[pmcnano]

Im selling my motherboard/cpu/ram...(well trying to sell them) if i have success i will buy c2d :(!
It would be first time with intel in like 8 years.

With cpus=1 expose seems slow etc...bah!

[Ianxxx]

pmcnano:Im selling my motherboard/cpu/ram...(well trying to sell them) if i have success i will buy c2d :(!
It would be first time with intel in like 8 years.

With cpus=1 expose seems slow etc...bah!

Thats what I did and it was the first time in twelve years lol

[pmcnano]

Lol the problem is....selling my current stuff, i have to "scam" someone lol....XD if i sell it to someone that knows...ill get crap for it =(! and its a great board! =(!

[muitommy]

I just want to add that,
i'm using intel cpu with 680i chipset,
everythings run fine, just the mouse will lag slightly (a very slight one, but noticiable) sometimes ...
but it's annoying!

[snyder9]

I've tried just about everything mentioned on this thread with no success. Once my CPU undergoes significant load, the various problems start surfacing.

But for now, I can live with using one core. I can manage to play 720p with Mplayer OSX 1.0 RC2 with only minor instances of lagging. The lag was a concern for me using a single core but I realized I wasn't using the RC2 version of the player.

[Puttabong]

I just added the cpus=1 flag to my boot.plist, it's time for me as well...
The only application that seems to be able to cause the mouse movement bug is Photoshop CS3.

I use it a lot at the moment. Rebooting now.

[milanca]

I never had problems, like strange mouse movements, mouse jumpung or things like that. But what i noticed after installing OS-X onto 2 AMD machines, one Intel C2D desktop and Intel C2D laptop machine is that somehow on my amd machine mouse movements are somehow very unnatural comparing to windows or linux. Its very annoying. On intel machines its just great but only on AMD machine very unnatural and really not comfort using mouse as in windows. I tested with 3 different mice, the same. I am used to this almost, after 5-6 months, but what i wanted to say is this kind of movement i really didnt notice on my other Intel machine.

[Voyn1x]

The more AMD users recognise this is problem the quicker we can find a solution. I know Jas might be looking into it, I wonder if the great Zephyroth has any input/suggestions?

[R0GUE]

To summarise this for future reference; it is not a 'mouse bug' per se, but a dual core timing issue.
Symptoms include:
• Mouse lag - early signs are drag and drop inaccuracies, trail skipping
• GUI lag - Finder window movement becomes choppy and acceleration degrades
• Random restarts - caused by the 'divide by zero' error resulting in kernel panic
• -10810 error - applications will not start until a restart or log out/in
• increased CPU fan noise and temperatures - due to dual core synchronisation errors
• general erratic behaviour - system feels sluggish, unresponsive at times

Remedy (Temporary)
• Boot using the 'cpus=1' kernel flag - this can be done at the beginning of each boot at the Darwin boot prompt, or permanently by editing the com.apple.boot.plist which can be found in: /Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/

[pmcnano]

I would like to ask, this happened in all versions of leopard?

Does it happens on tiger?

Is there any kernel that detects the 2 cores (in system profiler).

I do think it could have something to do with the HTT issue that happened in tiger.

:P

[naquaada]

It also must be a problem depending on the hardware. My Dual Core Opteron 185 (2 x 2.86 GHz overclocked) works absolutely perfect. Firefox quits sometimes, but otherwise I have no problems. I'm running Leo4All V3 + 10.5.3 update by ASU. The board is nForce 4 SLI, Socket 939 with 4 GB DDR RAM 200 Mhz. Puttabongs Dual Core machine also runs fine as far as I know.

Maybe it's a software problem, especially Photoshop? I'm using Logic and have no problems. Or the gfx card? I presume you all have nVidia, I have an ATI.

[R0GUE]

naquaada:Puttabongs Dual Core machine also runs fine as far as I know.
Read a few posts back, Puttabong's hack recently became susceptible to the problem. This issue has been around (according to JaS) since the Tiger days, and it is not hardware related it is a timing issue at software level. You're just one of the lucky ones.

[bhast2]

Yeah i am one of those lucky people too cause i don't have problems with this

and have a AMD Athlon 64 x2 5000+ and not one problem at all

[Voyn1x]

To the people who say they have no problems, how long on average do you leave your hack on without rebooting.

Many of these issues don't appear until long period of uptime has passed. Also if any apps quit on you during this time with a divide by zero error then you are suffering from the dual core timing issue, albit mildly.

[cgsheen]

Ya, I've never had a problem, but I don't leave my any of my machines running 24-7. My son probably does - but he's using a single core Turion64 socket 754 CPU. The longest any of my dual (quad) cores run is 15-20 hours at a stretch (well, except when, ummm, using Transmission a few times when they had to be up for a couple of days while Transmission, ummm, finished... what it was doing...)

[bhast2]

the only time i reboot or shut down my computer is when i have to for an update

so my computer is always running it could be weeks before i do a restart

[Puttabong]

I just switched back to two cores, because a single core is just too slow for most applications I use.

[bhast2]

i think it is a hit and miss for people because non of my apps crash and I hardly ever turn off photoshop it is always running in the background

[pmcnano]

Do anyone knows if this happened in tiger? I dont remember, in fact when i upgraded to dual core i changed to leopard so i dont know. I want to attempt to install tiger and update to 10.4.11 but i remember i couldnt before, Can i use the software updater? (Zephyroth's). I know there are kernels, but i dont know about updates.

@bhast2, yes, im with 1 core and its slow... meh

[^fire^]

i've start to fiddle arround with some bios settings... maybe there are some options to solve that kind of problem!

changed:
disable: CnQ
memory CL timings raised from CL5 to CL6
Disabled some ACPI settings
Disabled Enhanced halt state
Disabled Advanced Virtual Machine
Disabled USB Legacy Mode
Disabled PCI Busmaster

leopard is working fine atm since 2 hours no crashes no mousejumps, i will report if the issue happens again! :)

[^fire^]

after 5 hours intensive use of macOS with the settings above still no mousejumps or crashes!!!
i made some hardcore tests to run many heavy applications at the same time e.g. eyeTV, photoshop, reason, toast, adium, UT2003, firefox (about 50tabs lol) and adium(about 10chattabwindows) without any issues!
i will check it out till today evening, if the problems doesnt come back i will change the bios settings back to normal and lemme see what happens!

[seren]

As far as this issue is concerned I'm one of the lucky ones. I have has sporadic problems with -10xxx errors and the mouse movement. My CPU is a X2 Brisbane 5000+ Black Edition (Unlocked Multi) Stock 2.6GHZ Running at 3.2GHZ with 4gb ddr2 800 @ 886. I'm running a new install of Zephs Rev2 with 10.5.4 (ASU) and modbin kernel 9.4.0. My current uptime is over 2 days not a single issue.

For what its worth i use this to stress test rather than running a bunch of apps, but using this plus a bunch of processes should stress nicely. http://www.soft32.com/Download/Free/CPUTest/4-199513-1.html . The method I use for CPU Test is 32 Instances small and 10 repetitions . YMMV .

PS

2 Days up; and running Transmission (seeding many GB) + the usual's, Firefox will Crash sometimes over night but not resulting in -10xxxx errors anymore with this install.

[naquaada]

My computer is online for about 3 or 4 days. Transmission crashed last night, division by zero. My installation has maybe a speciality: It was installed on a single-core system, then ported on a dual-core computer. Have you guys with the stuttering problems tested Onyx? I made some additional settings in my system, maybe this will to the trick.

If it's a mouse problem (like the thread was called first), we should compare the mouse connections. What is you mouse connection and configuration? Here's mine:

Mouse: Wireless Mouse of the Logitech Cordless Internet Navigator Keyboard/Mouse combination
Connection: PS/2
Type: Optical
dpi: 800 (not sure)
Speed setting: 3 (third bar from the left)
Space needed for desktop: 2x2 cm (0,78x0,78 inch) for 1600x1200 pixel
Underground: plain table (!)

I'm actually running seren's test program, it finished over 920 tests sucessfully. EDIT: And I get every time that damn authentifcication error!

[pmcnano]

nah, its not the mouse....its something with the kernel...or software based error