Thanks for the advice, downloading now. I can cope with tiger for the time being. I've got leopard on my g4 mac mini and there's hardly been any major upgrades, spaces is good, as is stacks and the rss feed in mail I use, other than that webclip doesn't work as well as I wanted it to and not really fussed about the other updates. So Tigers fine until rev 2 is released, just looking forward to running os x on a fast system for a change.