Is this how the OSx86 scene is going?
 

http://hara.ipwn.me/other/files/pict...lymacabuse.pdf

If so, I am officially leaving InsanelyMac forever. It's painfully obvious that Fubra cares about nothing more than money, they refuse to reprimand their staff and members and let them run rampant. It's utterly disgusting how they let this go on.

I refuse to associate with them anymore. There will be no more releases posted by me on InsanelyMac, and if the same actions occur here, I will also deprive this forum of releases.

I am disgusted to call myself an InsanelyMac member because of this.

I have shot Sabr an email in hopes that he may be able to do something, whether Fubra approves or not, but again, with all the admins they have, you'd think they would take control of it.

It's a real shame that InsanelyMac is the virtual hub of OSx86.

If you agree and wish to embrace ALL aspects of OSx86 (distro's AND retail, and legacy and modern hardware support) and wish to see an end to this ridiculous behavior, then I implore you to post below and show your support and disgust for the way that Hagar and his cronies treat respectable OSx86 developers, especially one who's put out more incredibly useful tools (hell, even an entire new OSx86 DISTRO!) than anyone else on the scene, which are more valuable than simply posting command line methods and doing nothing more as some do.

Hey, I completely agree with you. They should not do that to ~PCWiz, someone who was just trying to get some help with iPC.

I have also removed myself from InsanelyMac, and have made an account here.

The first time I created a release (the first "working" Leopard for AMD ... :)) more than one year ago, the thread about it was removed in a month or two from InsanelyMac without any explication... That's why this forum has been created at first.
But nobody treated my work like they did to PCWIZ ...

I agree with you too, there are a lot of retards @ Insanely Mac ... Prolly more than everywhere else ...

If they still act like this there will be more and more people who will leave them ... And this is cool for this forum !

I am relatively new to the OSx86 thingie, but it seems like Insanelymac is more like a Voodoo-group(ie) forum than a generic place to gain and spread knowledge of getting OSX running on non-Apple hardware. Of course I could be totally wrong, would not be the first time. Won't be the last either. :)

I perfectly understand why you feel the way you do about the behaviour over at insanelymac and I can assure you that no such behaviour would be entertained here within these boards. Unfortunately insanely has become overgrown and out-of-control and I think that's why more and more people are coming here because we are the complete opposite. Its a shame really because insanely has such a vast wealth of talent and knowledge but it is shrouded in a sometimes negative environment.

It is a shame, and I do agree with Zephyroth. I was talking to joe75 last night and he suggested trying to post things to revive some other resources, like OSx86Scene, hackint0sh.org and any other we find. People talk and if they can find it they will go, and I'd really like to shift some of the attention away from InsanelyMac.

I've also gotten a response from Sabr, so once something goes on a little farther with that route I'll definitely post and let you know what's possibly going to happen.

I didn't read the whole thread, but one question.
Why did they do this?

Maybe you should read the thread ;)

Whoa, what's going on? That link's throwing me a 404.
I thought it was friendlier here but wasn't going to judge just because questions I ask there get ignored while here they get fair replies.

Should be working, link is fixed.

Sorry, I was organizing files on my hosting, and I moved it, but I fixed the link.

Here is a PM from Hagar I got in response to my little "fit" as he calls it.

Here is my response

I'm only posting if anyone is interested in how limited the so called expert really is.

I haven't read the thread at all, but i have had my own problems over at insanelymac, but must say that sabr did sort it out for me. But since then my solution is that I always point people to this site for help if I can. I think the main problem is that insanelymac has just become too big.

Holy crap. A lot has happened while I was moving. Looks like I've got a ton of reading to catch up on. I'm not able to see the original PDF though, Hara Taiki... not sure why as I can see all the rest. I'll try it later. I haven't been using InsanelyMac for anything except searching the wealth of knowledge and personal experiences as I try to help others here. A lot of good things came out of that site but I don't want to have to look through all the BS to see the silver-lining. Good on you for calling it out.

Hara Taiki, did I correctly understand that Wiz is only 13 years old now??

If so, I take my head off to him. Not only for his coding skills, but also for being more mature in his behavior than the so-called adults in that thread.

Having now read the attached pm from hagar, I really have to laugh. Its funny but my problems on osx where caused by hagar and I find it sad but amusing that his excuse/reason is that as far as he is concerned pcwiz's coding is crap (which is basically what he said). Hmmm that's not what I would call an intelectual reason or infact the behaviour of someone who is supposed to be a moderator on a site. Maybe just maybe the real problem is hagar and his ego rather than insanelymac.

Hagar's response to my wall of text: Here, and my response to him: here.

I think the issue is that you may be looking from Windows. I made the PDF's with Saft on Safari on OS X, so if you can, try on there, as everyone I show on a Mac can read them.

nope. I'm full-blown Mac. reading this from my macbook. I read the response from Hagar and your reply back... I just can't see the initial posted link as the PDF keeps coming up blank. I'll keep trying it though.

I too have had issues with him mod'ing my posts and PM'ing me to tell me that I am misleading people into thinking this is something everyone can attempt. I wrote a guide that worked for me (and I stated it might not be for everyone) and he tore it apart saying it wouldn't work for anyone else and I shouldn't waste my time there... This was back a few years when I was first getting into OSx86 but I still knew something about what I was talking about and people were helped by it (as later posts confirmed). I really think you might be on to something. He's gotta be better than most, if not all, of the others out there and if he feels threatened he'll turn it around.

i dont know why they pick on ipc release...its the best working one for me and am very grateful for work which all who were working on it, put into this rel.. but still...ive noticed that insanelymac had went mad some time ago but whats happening now is just some bad joke...

ps. guys my keyboard broke, im using onscreen one now. do you know if apple aluminium wired keyboards work on pc with leo installed. sry for offtop i just cant write freely atm with no keyb. want to buy it but not sure if itll work

AFAIK it is just a fancy looking USB keyboard and it will even work with Windows. Just has a couple of keys you wouldn't expect on a PC.

Well, I've read this thread and I fully agree with R0GUE about InsanelyMac being way to large and out of control. The reason I joined this site and discontinue going to InsainelyMac for help was because this site seems a lot more helpful and always finds the solution to my problems. The response time is also always reasonably quick.

One last thing is that the forum layout seems a whole lot nicer than InsanelyMac's

PS: Taisto, the aluminum wired keyboards DO work on PC's. I am using one right now =)

I cannot see the pdf link in first post also, mac/wins likewise...

regarding the IM - I joined this forum because it seems to be more ''clear'', helpfull, people are more friendly and ready to help. I dont post much here (didnt post much on IM also) but I read and learn a lot, and IM has become too big, admins and moderators are not doing good job cleaning IM from garbage.

This site has a lot of potential, I hope it will be good. And I hope it wont grow too big :D

On the iPC subject, I must admitt it has a big error/bug rate. I'm in OSX86 for over a year now, I'm not a newb anymore and I manage to install OSX on almoust every PC. I tried every LEO distro outthere, and iPC is the least succsesfull distro.

Personally, I would like to see more kext developers then distro developers. Also, I would like to see more people working on retail installs ( AMD and Intel) and kext development. I think these 2 things should be the main focus now, along with kernel and usefull app dev.

There's a lot of distros going around, almoust everyone can find the one he can use.

If pcwiz had a little more experience, he would probably release this iPC beta only to a smaller closed group of testers. He would have avoid a lott of problems doing that,and the final effect would be much better. Personaly I love his work, if he is really that young (13) he deserves a lot of credit.


Now, can someone post a good link to the pdf in first post, I would like to see what all the fuss is about :)

I've been in this scene quite a long time, this is just the first I've actually decided to try and help contribute back to the scene. 3 years is a long time, and I am still learning things.

I don't agree with your statement about iPC for several reasons. Firstly, we've had a much greater positive response than negative. The first reason for this supposed failure rate is user error. It's clearly written that you need to install a chipset driver (mostly for non-vanilla setups), in both the notes on the release page, and in the installer itself when you click that "Agree" button. People don't bother to read, end up getting "Waiting for root device" and come running back. Another example is not doing their homework and research into what works and what doesn't. That's what the Wiki was for. Also, it's in the nature of OSx86 to not work for some people, at this moment it's impossible to support every system, even when trying both retail and non-retail methods. This failure rate may have only been on your end as well. Which is fine. We have nothing against using another distro, as long as you can get Leo up and running, that's enough on it's own. You're free to use from the iPC dvd whatever you want afterwards as well. This is why we added the ability to launch the installer from inside another OS X system, if you need a driver and it's on iPC, you don't have to go searching high and low on the internet.

We opened up the beta after a few small trial runs because we figured it would be better if we could get input from the people who are going to use it and support those people to the best of our ability. The top two hardest to support are SBx00 users (usually newer chipsets) and nForce users. It's still very difficult to run retail with these chipsets as well.

Onlly leopard? Should have been around in the 10.4.x days. Those were fun. "Want to install Tiger? Well, too bad" was the most common scenario.

I agree with your last points.

I know that there are a lot of weird things in insanelymac, but this is shameful. It's neiter funny or ridiculus, this is simply stupid. It reminds me at the guys of forum64.de. These people were so idiotic that I canceled my registration - although I had over 600 posts.

But insanelymac has the same problem like the complete internet: If there are too many people in it, there are a lot of ididots beneath them. And because of the size it is difficult to control what's going on. Have you tried to search a special thing in insanlymac? It's nearly impossible.

I made difficult experiences with forums, users and languages. In German forums there's a lot space for off-topic talk, this opens room for stupid talk. I'm now in macmini-forum.de, it's a nice forum - but it's so calm in there, wow. In the OSx86 forums you'll get bombed with information, I hadn't this in other Mac forums. In the forum64.de (Commodore 64) and a1k.org (Amiga) are more information, but totally stupid users. That mustn't mean anything, I also own a lot of these classic computers (with massive hardware ;-)

Infinitemac was a great alternative to Insanelymac, I entered there a few days after it was founded. Especcially the concentration to AMD was great, and Zephyroth's 10.5.1 image was the first image to get away from Tiger 10.4.7 (by myzar). All Images since JaS 10.4.8 had a bug in the Disk Utility which I use every day. I think the users in there make a very good community, I don't remember about so heavy things to complain about. What about the other OSx86 forums, how many are there actually?

I can't read everything 'cause my glasses with prism optic are broken and I see everything twice... :-B but to see huge scrolling PMs with text quotes in it is enough to see that there must be some problems. I didn't had specific problems with Hagar, some slaps or short bans in the IRC, never mind.

To the iPC image, on my system only the X1600 drivers won't work and the Keyboard Preference pane is wrong... that's all I know and it's easy to fix. (I have you to send the fixed files, Hara Taiki... sorry was a bit busy) But it's sure, not every image works completely on every computer, they hardware configurations are much too different. I've tested more than 25 images from 10.4.5 to 10.5.6 and the only ones which were running 100% without problems were myzar's 10.4.6 and Leo4All V3. All others had some kind of errors including some which could't be fixed easily. The installation menu of iPC is fantastic, it's one of the best I've ever seen. And some fixes will follow in the next ppf, but that's another topic.

Interesting, Hara Taiki, you said '3 years is a long time'... true, in March 2009 it will be 3 years for me too - only. I have a feeling I'm using OSx86 for so much longer. In comparison, Windows XP I used regularly from 02/2004 to 05/2006 - I know it exactly, I switched to XP because I used it for Audio editing. But then I switched to Tiger, and it was so great that I used it in 1280x1024 in 60 Hz on a CRT monitor. Gladly I was used Amiga Interlace (25 Hz), so it wasn't too difficult. It needed some time as patches for the X1600 were available, and it wasn't diffictult to apply them. In these times Insanelymac was really informative!

Now Ive browsed insanely for years now but only recently became active both here and over there. I agree that these guys were extremely rude in the post but post #28 brings you down to their level. Though it may be difficult to hold back your feelings. It will put you in a better light to those new to the forum who run across this post if you were to avoid profane statements. The first pcwiz post is a perfect example of restraint.

I think the point should be made that Realityiswhere was correct when making the point that the graphic contribution broke the source image's cc license. This has nothing to do with pcwiz as TheBogieMan is at fault here. The thread took a wrong turn from there out.

The problem that I see is in the moderation of the post. Realityiswhere is correct for stating the issue with the graphic but he/her or any other mod who viewed the post should have put an end to the bashing. They should have ended it regardless of pcwiz's conduct on the forum or software reliability. Ever instance of this kind of content tarnishes the integrity of the forum.

This type of thing really does my head in. Usually when they start slagging a release of its because they wont bother to read or understand how the distros are made. I mean how can 1 or 2 or even 10 ppl cover every piece of hardware out there and know it to be flawless. I've had crap in the past from ppl claiming I sounded to much like a wiki for the knowledge I had to be my own (how rediculous). I did the same as pcwiz and started ranting and it turned into a bit of a slag fest. Then I threatened to stop bothering doing anything else and got slagged of for that. See I'm at it again its still annoying me lol! All I can say is vote with your browsers and do what suits you the best. If a forum where you have to be in a click suits you then fine. If you want a forum where there are some seriously dedicated HELPERS (you know who you are guys) then come here. One thing I would like is if you ever get help in these forums please spread the wealth of the knowledge you have gained. Also if you use any of the distros that seem to be associated with this site or the fact this site has helped you then please make a donation. These help to keep this site going. Im starting to think of insanelymac as a user base and infintemac as a growing community in its own right. Oh and as a side note how many distros fail due master/slave configs and bios settings but hey ppl just wanna plug and pray lol. To anyone thats contributed to the scene (wether its distro, kext, kernel, backdrop, guide etc) thankyou. I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the die hards that have made all this possible.

I didnt want to be disrespectful. I have 4 systems at home, 3 nf4 AMD and one Intel, with iPC only 25% (1 system) works. I did everything by the book (I'm in osx86 long enough so i know what i have to do), tried complete and minimum setup (bootloader, chipset, kernel) didnt work either way. With Leo4All and Kallyway (both 10.5.2.) i had 100% success.

And I understand that some distros just dont work on some systems. I like iPC, it has many many kexts, fixes, updates, kernels etc. Would be nice to use it with all my systems.

I think that in some cases the 10.5.6. update in distro is to blame for not working. Apple did a lot of changes there...
I will give a try with the final version, till now i used beta patched version all the way to PPF5.

i wasnt here in the challenging Tiger days. But, from what I read it was almoust impossible to get 10.4 working on AMD system so I guess i didnt miss a lot of fun :)

Hey guys,

Thanks for your (mostly) positive responses on this thread. This is the first time I'm really confessing it, but I am 14 right now (iPC started at 13, app programming started at 11) so I don't have nearly as much experience as most think (and please don't spread this stuff around, I'm confiding in you people because I trust that you won't act like some of the other folks). In terms of iPC's failure rate, I can confirm to you right now that the positives far outweigh the negatives, I've had a lot of positive response to it everywhere, and many problems that people are experiencing are due to mostly user error and the radical changes Apple made in 10.5.6 (especially in terms of graphics). As for my apps being unreliable, I can also tell you that I have received more positive than negative about them. Most problems are due to unfamiliarity with OSx86, user error, and the occasion where it is the app's fault is sometimes in issues with About this Mac corruption with OSx86 Tools (don't worry, its fixable).

Thanks for understanding my situation :)

WOAH

Gobsmacked!!!!!

That's what i thought, my install problem s where all graphics related. Will try a final release when I catch some free time.

About OSX86Tools, personaly I think it is the most valuable OSX86 tool outthere. Works perfectly for me :)

pcwiz, You are more then have of my age, and I admire your skills and spirit. Keep up the good work with iPC, GUIs and OSX86 apps :)

@ pcwiz:

I also got my first own computer with 13, but in 1989 this was a C64. That means 0.985 Mhz, 39K useable RAM, 165K per disk... How times change :)
Too bad I never could learn assembler, it's the fastest and most effective programming language ever, but nearly unnuseable on actual computers.

Damn!! At 14 I was smoking a lot of weed and playing in a rock band. You're going to go a lot farther doing what you're doing!

Be sure to get some proper training in programming techniques - data structures, object orientation, etc. The best thing you can possibly do to further your skills is to work on someone else's code. When I was learning to program, open source projects didn't exist. You have the benefit of being able to tap into a huge base of other people's source code.

Keep at it and don't take any smack from people about your age!

PCwiz if you are 14 now, and yet you`re so skilled with this stuff, i wonder what will you achieve at the age of 20-25 ;) Feel kinda envy haha, wish you many successes :) I`ve started at similar age as you but well...it was atari times, loong time till PC as we know them now and oh, whatever im not into this anymore, got a job in whole different area and lost my interest ( or call it time for them ) in programming etc.

i finally can check out what happens on InsanelyMac and i really think that's so sad...
just like u said. No one of them bothered a second to help the community. Shame on them!!!!

Taisto - Yeah dude, just bought that keyboard yesterday, using it right now! =D

As for ~pcwiz. Good on yeah man, I started at around 10 rebuilding computers and discovering that I knew a heck of a lot more than people 3 times my age. Never let it get to you; just shows how immature can be when they're jealous ;-)

p.s. Been trying to get your attention for a project. Send me a message with your email if that's ok.

It's sad to see InsanelyMac admins are so cocky.

I like forums where everyone's post is heard, I think that the scale of InsanelyMac is too big for the staff to control, and that it is too in some ways complicated.

Although, the only thing I really see at InsanelyMac is an archive of install fails and kexts.

I keep looking for a new place to hang out. Been playing with OSx86 for 3yrs now.

InsanelyMac is just huge, but nothing else has really ever taken off nor maintained. For months now I have hated it because it is soooo full of newbs who have made NO attempts to learn how to install and ask the same damn questions again and again. The site is SLOW and the search engine is abysmal. The Mods never make threads sticky that should be, nor force a FAQ and delete improper or repeated questions.

I am in high hopes InfiniteMac will be my new hang out :)

iPC... 14... no friggin' way. Dude, you are amazing! I'm twice your age and WISH i was as competent as you are. Keep it up. Your next release will be even better. I admit the your distro didn't install as smoothly as some others, but i think it's because you were really letting the user choose the exact kexts to install for the sake of vanilla-bility where others had some basic ones that installed by default. Once I figured that out it was pretty smooth sailing. You're doing great man. Keep it up. Don't listen to those bozos. They're just trying to stifle you cuz they're jealous. I don't remember using anything Hagar ever did. And Hara, you keep it up too. I'm anxiously awaiting the iPC boot-132 you posted about awhile back.

Btw, am i to assume that you got your wallpaper? The one with the Mac Pro and the wings? If so, would you mind telling me where to find it? I'd love to have it as the background on my iPC hack :)

Oh and sorry to drag up an old thread that's probably yesterday's news, but i just saw it and had to give you guys some kudos. I'm definitely gonna spend more time here after reading that. Hara, you said you were going to update on what Sabr told you, but I didn't see a resolution. Kinda' curious as to how that went.

Custom art from a close friend of mine who does graphic design and web design.

It went nowhere, really. Fubra seems to be in control, they are letting whatever go on. I'll still post on InsanelyMac, but I wont expect it to be as it was before the buyout. InfiniteMac will be my main hangout, but I'm looking to get a MacPro (Nehalem) later on down the line, once that happens, I am probably going to retire from the scene.

That's too bad. I really appreciate all you've done to help. Hey I've got a MBP, but I do this as a fun hobby, and cuz a Mac Pro is way overkill for my needs. If apple comes out with an expandable mid tower, i'd probably get one of those and not need a hackintosh too. But it's still fun ;) Any chance i could get a copy of that wallpaper? Or is it kinda' an in-house type thing? That's cool if it is. I was just wondering cuz I love it.

I am getting a MacPro for more than one reason.

- It suits my needs (I do a lot of stuff that requires this kind of power, my current Hackintosh doesn't meet my needs but I'm stuck with it)
- No need to hack it up to get it working.
- It's still expandable (as long as you know how to work things :) )
- It's way ahead of the curve as far as consumer computers are concerned.
- It will stay current for quite a while (even with refreshes, they are still current).

As for the wallpaper, they (yes, more than one) are available for download at the iPC blog page on ~pcwiz's website.

Cool thanks. Yeah if you have need for it they're great machines.

I want to make it clear that I only helped with the iso (the first one) and helped a bit on the first ppf but the rest of the ppf's I had nothing to do with them and I don't want people to think that I did alot of work on IPC.
Don't get me wrong PCWiz and I talk and he is a great guy but don't say that I did a bunch of work on IPC when I didn't

Trust me, he didn't know what he was talking about with that one. No where did either of us make a claim that you spent more time on it than that.

Lots of problems if you don't READ
 

It wasn't until I stopped thinking this was a shrink wrapped no brainer install that I had success with iPC. I now have good installs on my nice quad core machine with an Intel DG43NB mobo, this was on no ones "compatible" list when I started, and my sister's low end compaq laptop. I read and took notes. Both of the machines worked with the base system and bootloader and a few select items from the distro. Once I started to understand a bit better, things fell into place nicely. pcwiz, u ROCK brotha'. I just joined here, and have only been in osx86 since 4/10. I am a real noob. Had a few macs in the past tho. Still have the EMac I got a few years back. My daughter loves Photo Booth, and I wanted Leo. I almost bought a Mac mini, but the credit card in my wallet expired the day before my purchase, LOL. I started researching, and now have a Mac Pro class machine for the price of a mini. As for where I will do my research and post what tips I can, I guess I will do it here and not worry about im. Thanks again to u Gurus!

Insanelymac
 

As I said in this thread having a community thats split into tribes as if there's some civil war is ridiculous, how are we going to tackle the challenges of OSx86 as a community if part of our community is at war. Many of the long timers at insanelymac are being elitist and don't like the influx of less experienced people. They need to grow up and stop being so childish. Even if I didn't agree with what PCwiz was doing (which isn't true, I can honestly say I am proud to have someone so talented in this community) I wouldn't start flaming him, its bullying and I won't tolerate it. One of the many reasons I turned my back on Insanelymac. So glad that I got the invite from Puttabong at the time I did, I was considering leaving the OSx86 community completely, as I was so fed up. Right on cue Puttabong ;)

Yes, we could need some more active developers. Luckily Andyvand came to us, he'd done some really useful things. And if I take a look at the news of the Voodoo XNU team he will have fixed the kernel of the 10.5.7 update before them. I'd wish that Netkas and LastExile would come to us, they made great drivers for the ATI Radeon HD series.

Yeah I also agree on that...
If you see how they in general tend to treat people...
Some of them over there tend to find it more amusing to curse each other than to do something usefull.
When I compare InsanelyMac with this place I am way more pleased with InfiniteMac anyday...

Just my two cents
 

Teens will always be teens, and unfortunately, some of them don't grow up, especially when addicted to childish things. Where you have immaturity, lawlessness abounds.

As one of the moderators pointed out earlier, it is indeed a waste of talents and resources. And I'd like to alarm a small bell that probably rang elsewhere already, that is, if you combine the time that youngsters and young adults are spending on games, and other unproductive activities of modern era, it comes out to be not mere centuries, but millennia. I'm not suggesting that we go back to pre-TV or pre-Internet days, but we're, in effect, experiencing a true brain-drain in an unprecedented scale, and for that fact alone, as a concerned parent, I'd be willing to take my family a boat ride back to agricultural society with its labor-intensive, family-oriented settings.

Thirdly, and lastly, a more pointed comment for a person of devotion and intellect, namely, PCWiz. I had a friend like him once back in Virginia. He was simply a genius. Back in those days, 300 BPS modem was the fastest connection you had, and this friend, with a BBS alias of Fenris Wolf, hacked into DoD, AT&T and hosts of other government private networks, and private PBX systems. He's probably one of the earliest pioneers of phreaking, cracking, and hacking. I met him through a local BBS meeting once (a group of nerds really), and a year later, he was jailed in a federal prison. It's already a common knowledge why hackers or other intellectuals do this, and I also happen to think that this honorable young man is spending copious amount of time helping others for a similar reason, when he has so much to learn and experience for himself. I'd be forever grateful to PCWiz for all that he has accomplished so far, but if I were his father, I'd even be more grateful if his real life matches the dignity and the legacy he has already imprinted in this community. Sorry for this type of post on a tech board, but having been a witness to the demise of InsanelyMac, I felt compelled to share my thoughts with you. Good day. :)